Dear Jude
I came across your site by accident. I must say I am so thankful to see that there are still some fearless commentators who stand up for the values I was brought up with.
I had almost despaired when reading the noxious imperialist lies produced by the IT and the Indo day after day over the past few years. The glorification of violence as long as it is for the good of the Empire and then without a whiff of hypocrisy the damning of those Irishmen and women who dared to strike a blow for Irish freedom. We now have British soldiers’ names on the Glasnevin Cemetery memorial to 1916. My ears are still ringing to the applause of the IT on the very subject.
So, I assume when I go to the Thiepval Memorial later this year to remember my great uncle who died in the last battle of the Somme I can expect to find the names of all the German soldiers who died in the battle right alongside him. No, really? Surely the IT will write a stirring editorial to make that happen……………………No? oh dear….the shame of it.
I can only conclude that many of my fellow countrymen and women suffer from the world’s first clinically observed case of collective Stockholm syndrome. Our inferiority complex (especially in the South) in the face of the great Empire (which we did more than anyone to bring down) has no limits apparently.
And so we engage in a slow-motion public exhibition of exaggerated “ self-reflection “ over the Easter Rising. Short-hand for blame the rebels for everything that went wrong then and since. And hence we chastise our heroes for (1) killing all those civilians (most were happy looters but there you go); (2) poor innocent British soldiers (my great uncle was among them but that’s another story). Not to mention forcing the Brits to destroy our beloved capital. Shure we brought it all on ourselves didn’t we……
And all of that after Home Rule was already passed and signed by the King and the ink all dried and and almost very nearly maybe perhaps going to be implemented……………….what were our 1916 heroes thinking? Now let’s have no mention here of unpleasantness like the Curragh mutiny or the Ulster gun running or Bachelor’s Walk …….
Of course as part of a growing sense of maturity over the past all nations go through this period of self-criticism and self-reflection right? ……………the British over their global Empire and millions dead…………the Americans over George Washington ………..the Unionists over well, everything………. No, they don’t? really? Not even for five minutes (Arlene Foster’s riposte to Mickey D’s desperate plea for a bit of reciprocal self-reflection is very instructive here )
So it is only us then…………. Oops have we been sold a pup again or what…………
I digress.
I mainly wanted to say “Go raibh mile maith agat and lean leis an obair !”
Le gach dea mhein
Fiachra Mac Cana
“I can only conclude that many of my fellow countrymen and women suffer from the world’s first clinically observed case of collective Stockholm syndrome. Our inferiority complex (especially in the South) in the face of the great Empire (which we did more than anyone to bring down) has no limits apparently.”
What an excellent statement Fiachra.
But was it always like this?
Prior to 1960, as far as I know, almost all IRA activity was southern led and from what I have heard, the 1966 commemorations where so jubilant, unionists in the north used it as an excuse to raise tensions saying a second rise of the IRA was imminent which we now know was untrue and indeed quite the opposite.
The republic in 1969 feared to risk helping Irish citizens in the north and left the PIRA alone on the front line between loyalist and British militancy.
I sometimes wonder is there a degree of guilt over what happened in the north and the narrative that we brought in on ourselves perhaps suits the conscience of those who know we were abandoned by the free state.
The reality is, Sinn Fein on their own have brought a peaceful means of freeing all of Ireland from British rule and it is now in the gift of the southern electorate to vote in a Taoiseach with courage who is prepared to get us over the line and take a lead in the outreach to the north and gain a 50% + 1 majority.
Believe me, failure to do this for selfish reasons will be a much greater insult to Irish citizens in the north than the fear of getting involved in a conflict with Britain which having lived through I can totally understand.
I long for Ireland to have our own independence day to celebrate the freedom of our brave nation.
We have nothing to be ashamed off and so much to be proud off.
That is the only legacy we should be confidently handing down to our children.
Have you not heard of France’s Ring of Remembrance Fiachra? All the registered war dead, German, French, British and others, together in strict alphabetical order as a shared European memorial. Just like Glasnevin except the Glasnevin Trust also included the civilian dead. Plurality and reconciliation eh?
“Just like Glasnevin except the Glasnevin Trust also included the civilian dead. Plurality and reconciliation eh?”
Not sure what point you are making BYC.
What I have seen from both states in particular the south and the southern media over the past few years has had nothing to do with reconciliation but blatant one sided vilification or selective condemnation exactly as Fiachra says. I also feel it has been for purely selfish party political reasons.
Even President Higgins felt the need to comment that scrutiny has been one sided.
Fiachra was saying the Britsih don’t include their enemies names with their own in their war memorials, as if that’s a preposterous thing only the craven Irish would do, and I was pointing out the the ring of remembrance does exactly that.
The ring of remembrance was commissioned by France Designed by French architects and paid for by the French War Graves Asscn with help from the EU.
You’re getting your countries mixed up Byc The only thing british are the names included!
The French bought the land for all the British war graves Angela. The Commonwealth Wargraves Comnission just provides maintenance. Britain had to give permission for inclusion on the Ring of Remembrance. The question is the consent to include the names of your dead ancestors with those of their (at the time) enemies as a gesture of reconciliation with your modern day friends and/or allies. It’s about recognising, for once, the individual and not the uniform. The poster thinks the Brits wouldn’t do it and they already have.
“Fiachra was saying the Britsih don’t include their enemies names with their own in their war memorials,”
I don’t believe they do or ever would but I refuse to believe it is the Irish people that are craven BYC.
However, there is nothing that would surprise me any longer on how low this current administration would sink.
I have already had my rant about them but I do fear they have already sold Irelands soul.
It certainly doesn’t encourage me that a united Ireland is inevitable as some suggest.
We can only hope that sooner or later they will go too far and the people will eventually say enough is enough and stop paying them to destroy our country.
I don’t think the Irish people are craven either Jessica. I don’t like this idea of a noble people sold out by a corrupt government either though. That’s the sort of stuff demagogues use and we’ve had enough of those people.
You and I are from different sides of the divide that people before us imposed upon us. I’m a prod but I’m not a unionist. What I saw at Glasnevin – especially the prayers from the kids from all the churches more than the wall to be honest – was an example of exactly the sort of Ireland I’d tick the box to join – honest about the past but genuinely committed – in words and in deeds – to a shared future. Even if the main aim was better social solidarity in the republic it wasn’t a sell out of the northern nationalist. It was a showcase of the kind of Ireland we could all have and I think it made the republican case better than anything I’m hearing from this side of the border.
When I see Shinners freaking out about it I wonder when you’re going to sit down and take an inventory of everything you’ve achieved since the GFA and stop being blinded by unfinished business. Eddie called me a revisionist earlier. Having googled various definitions I’ve decided he’s right – at least in the Soviet or Marxist sense. Apparently revisionism is a theory of social development that prioritises social evolution and pluralism over revolution. I’ll take that. Revolutions are all hype, disillusionment, despair and counter revolution. Maybe you true believers all maintained such revolutionary fervour for so long you can’t help but be disappointed in your achievements. If that’s the case I suggest you all embrace revisionism as you might find it the sunnier side of the street.
“What I saw at Glasnevin – especially the prayers from the kids from all the churches more than the wall to be honest – was an example of exactly the sort of Ireland I’d tick the box to join – honest about the past but genuinely committed – in words and in deeds – to a shared future.”
On its own I would agree with you entirely.
But in light of the blatant attacks and one sided vilification, no they cannot have their cake and eat it.
I am all for reaching out, but when the response is blistering hatred and one sided condemnation, lies and propaganda with full backing of the state and its media, then it becomes something else entirely.
When condemnation is as equal and honest as the positives you outline, then you have a point. Until then, covering up one side of the conflict while condemning the other is not a good recipe for a positive future.
They are trying to make pariahs out of the republican community and it is not honesty that they are using to do this.
“What I have seen from both states in particular the south and the southern media over the past few years has had nothing to do with reconciliation but blatant one sided vilification or selective condemnation exactly as Fiachra says. I also feel it has been for purely selfish party political reasons.”
You must have missed the huge events on Easter Sunday in Dublin celebrating the so-called rising
Byc.
The headstones and crosses for the German dead of WW1 in France are all BLACK as a
mark of condemnation of German “crime.” The re-assembled stones in the Forest of Compiegne refer to the “Criminal German Empire.”
There is no “Reform Group” in France pressing for its incorporation in a German Empire or
Commonwealth, no ex-Premier of France condemning France’s Revanchist policies up to
1914 for the “restoration” of Alsace and Lorraine to France, or of the Irregular de Gaullist
rejection of the 1940- 1944 accommodation of most French parliamentarians and almost all French citizens with the Third Reich.No French radio stars arranging for Masses to be said for the 3,000 French civilians killed by Allied action on D-Day, and the many more by the Allied air-raids before it and Allied actions for almost a year afterwards.
Germany has renounced all claims to French territory and paid reparations to France.
I don’t think Byc, that these facts ring any bells with you.
And yet it was France’s President Hollande who dedicated the ring of remembrance Dional. Is there a French Donal Kennedy telling him he’s sell-out, German loving, traitor?
Byc – Why not ?
Shortly we will see the Auxies and The Black & Tans too – you Revisionists should be more then happy then ?
Why not add in the names of dead Paras and MI5 Members too ? They have contributed so much to Ireland’s History – they too should be recognised on The Revisionists “Wall of Shame”
Only shortly , I suspect, that it will fall just like the one in Berlin did too !!!
The wall in Berlin was dividing people Eddie. This one’s uniting them. What’s this revisionist malarkey? Are you under the impression that Ireland ever had an agreed history that someone’s now changing?
The Ring of Remembrance refers to WW1. I cannot imagine one for WW2 listing the names of the Gestapo and SS who died in France.
“The glorification of violence as long as it is for the good of the Empire and then without a whiff of hypocrisy the damning of those Irishmen and women who dared to strike a blow for Irish freedom.”
What imperial violence has the Irish Times glorified?
“So, I assume when I go to the Thiepval Memorial later this year to remember my great uncle who died in the last battle of the Somme I can expect to find the names of all the German soldiers who died in the battle right alongside him. No, really? Surely the IT will write a stirring editorial to make that happen……………………No? oh dear….the shame of it.”
The purpose of the Thiepval memorial is not to remember all those who died but only the British and Commonwealth troops. I understand Glasnevin’s purpose is wider than remembering only one group. I understand there is already a memorial in Dublin to remember only Irish nationalist dead.
“I can only conclude that many of my fellow countrymen and women suffer from the world’s first clinically observed case of collective Stockholm syndrome. Our inferiority complex (especially in the South) in the face of the great Empire (which we did more than anyone to bring down) has no limits apparently.”
The inferiority complex surely manifests itself in the ongoing desire to celebrate the violence of 1916 even a century layer despite its manifest unjustness; and also in the hysterical reaction to the suggestion that the rebels’ victims be remembered as well as the rebels themselves.