Say what you will about Mike Nesbitt (and which of us hasn’t?), he is capable of delivering a 10,00-volt surprise. He proved so yesterday by announcing that his party is quitting the Executive and going into official Opposition. “Let battle commence!” were his final rousing words.
I find it hard to fathom the former UTV news presenter. At one point I put forward the possibility that he was mad, a suggestion which he remembered and confronted me with at a public unionist meeting. Then I thought he’d gone irretrievably right-wing, to give his party a clear public image. Then I thought he’d gone a bit more left-wing. And now he’s gone out on the Executive wing-tip and jumped into Opposition.
Nobody I know saw it coming. I remember murmuring my agreement with others when it was argued that the SDLP and the UUP would stay in the Executive, because this meant your party could show what it was capable of through actions of that minister. But Mike has proved us wrong.
Why has he done this? For the same reason that he took the party right-wards and then left-wards: to make a clear distinction between his party and the DUP. The last election, which again pundits thought the UUP would do well in, showed yet again a slump in UUP fortunes. If Mike does nothing, the waters will eventually come lapping around his UUP chin. So he’s gone for Opposition.
Will it work? Well, the former TV man is a calm and assured speaker – an impressive leader, judged by his demeanour. But judged by his past record, he is a pretty hopeless leader. In fact, his dramatic announcement yesterday that his party will go into opposition brings to mind the reaction of Dorothy Parker to the news that President Calvin Coolidge was dead: “How can they tell?”
It’ll be the same old same old from the UUP, only now minus a UUP bum on a ministerial seat. And of course it’s put the SDLP and the Alliance Party on a slowly-rotating spit. Gee thanks, Mike.
I welcome it to be fair. Of course he’s doing it in the hope of making gains but come on ! We don’t have to look too far at other parties staying in opposition with an eye on the next election.
The SDLP should follow suit if they had sense. Having the SDLP and PBP in opposition might keep SF honest and spur them on to deliver more than they’ve done to date in the executive.
I genuinely don’t see what the issue is here. Better and more honest for a party to be outside ‘Government’ if they spend all their time complaining about it.
There is no reason for the Alliance to follow suit if they don’t want to.
More ministries for those that stay in – what exactly is the problem here?
Ulster says Yes, for once…
The UUP’s titanic decision gives rise to a number of questions. Is the ship sinking? Where was the ship going? If someone jumps overboard, has the captain given an order to abandon ship? Who should be last off the ship? Is it now a case of every man/woman for himself/herself? When a person jumps overboard, he/she has no sense of direction, no destination and no guarantee of survival. Any attempt to rescue a person in deep water poses a number of risks. Is it a case of sink or swim for the UUP? Will the lifeboats, Alliance and SDLP come to the rescue and run the risk of losing more personnel from the depleted crews? What role might destroyers play in such a rescue plan?
Back on dry land, poverty, unemployment and homelessness remain facts of life throughout the country. There is no material difference in a trolley wait in Belfast and a trolley wait in Dublin. Elected representatives may have the luxury of time to develop programmes for government, that is no consolation to individuals who are obliged to wait, some in pain, awaiting medical treatment or community services. It is no small wonder that political disillusionment may now be measured in the number of individuals who choose not to vote throughout the country.
Fear not though, help is at hand. There is a no-fly zone at Malin Head, Star Wars hero Hans Solo’s vessel Millennium Falcon has arrived and stormtroopers are swarming into Ulster.
majority rule again, majority in the executive majority in opposition not that it makes little odds they are useless anyway.
By my calculations, with the UUP out of the running, the d’Hondt process would now result in this allocation of ministries: DUP = 4, SF = 3, SDLP = 1.
In this new scenario, it makes even less sense for SF to agree to give one of the 8 ministries (Justice) to the Alliance Party for free. Either SF or the DUP should bite the bullet and choose Justice themselves, thus sending Alliance out of an executive they did not gain enough votes to be in. Alliance will not be in the official opposition either for the same reason, i.e. to be in it you have to be entitled by your number of seats to a ministry.
In broad terms, this state of affairs would lead to a real power-sharing executive, ie 4 protestants and 4 catholics, and 2 joint first ministers.
Its all very simple the UUP have never fully supported power shearing even as you go back to Sunningdale with Craig and West who supported the ulster workers strike 1974 which brought that government down, and how Trimble worked against the SDLP and Mallon on the good Friday agreement , where the SDLP are now paying the price as are the UUP
At least now its all out in the open as the UUP /the orange order have now fully admitted that they don’t want a fenian or a moderate around the place ,( not that the DUP are moderate’s)
still cant get their heads around the fact that the people have moved on and that their little orange state is dead and on its way to the graveyard of history
I read this recently but I can’t remember who said it and it set me thinking. Jude, is it possible to be socially left of centre but politically right of centre? By socially I mean in a financial/business sense.
You’re leaning on a broken reed, fiosrach. If you’re living your life in financial/business terms left of centre, I guess that would define you: was it Shaw said we learn people’s philosophy of life not on what they say but how they act? Right and left can be confusing tags. For example, Pope John Paul II was regarded as right-wing and conservative, but he was scathing about the West’s wars in the Middle East. I might be campaigning for a living wage – or even paying my workers a living wage – but I might be racist or sexist – OR AGEIST. (And no, don’t tell me I was ageist about Sam McBride. It doesn’t work like that…)
I take it fiorach, you mean that if ,for example, you were a businessman, it would not be possible to be very “left-wing” too, because of business considerations getting in the way of your socialist ideals…Is that what you mean? Would it be possible for a true socialist to hold any conservative-type views on anything? As far as I can see the SDLP are not really such a “socialist” party either nor are Sinn Fein either. I’ve never really heard either of them talking about too much about socialism at all .I imagine that Sinn Fein saw themselves originally as revolutionary socialists too but they’ve moved a long way from those days now too. Were the Labour party socialists while under Tony Blair’s leadership. ? There was a time when these things were much clearer.
Is left / right not more about public control, right would be allowing businesses the freedom to make money, usually within the realm of capitalism and privatisation, where returns are high due to better performance, utilisation and value for money.
The downside is when greed inevitably kicks in and the wealth generated is unfairly distributed among a few who then do their best to avoid paying their share in taxes.
Left would be where the public control more resources which usually end up with services that are poorly managed with low performance outputs, poor utilisation and are wasteful but it spreads the money wasted among more of the less well off
Communism or far left to me is when all businesses are shared and don’t really need to make money so long as someone does, the profits are shared equally.
There is nothing to motivate or encourage entrepreneurialism which is what sustains economies in the 21st century and the bulk of profits are spent sustaining the less well off limiting national growth.
Typically what works is longer periods of center right with occasional left, center left to counter so the poorer don’t get too far behind to make it sustainable.
Tony Blair would have been middle of the road and was the best place labour could be.
I would be in favour of privatisation but with safe guards in for the most vulnerable and a compulsory basic health tax to cover every one with private care which can be topped up voluntarily for better cover. Yes, I believe in rewarding those that work above those that don’t.
There will be no rise of the left in Ireland. They will never make it into power.
Paddy, you make a few good points. Some of the best Capitalists in the North are in Sinn Fein and the SDLP, that’s not me having a go at anyone but there’s many a land lord in SF and the SDLP. Indeed just recently there were reports in the Irish News of an SDLP councillor in Belfast owning many properties and earning an estimated £250,000 per year in rent earnings. Now for a member of a so called socialist party that’s capitalism at its best lol I’m not attacking anyone here btw, I’m simply pointing out the hypocrisy.
There was also a former hunger striker who made millions in property in Dublin but later lost most of his wealth on deals that fell through. Over 600,000 euro was concealed under his bath when he was planning on moving abroad.
The term “Champagne Socialists” have been given to many who profess to be Left Wing but who are really capitalists. It was the same when the Bolshevik’s came to power in Russia in 1918, they made all sorts of promises, a more equal society, distribution of wealth, etc all noble intentions but in reality all that happened was the Leaders such as Lenin, Stalin, etc all took the places of the Tsar and his top officials and even moved into palaces that use to be belong to the “Capitalist Pigs”. Stalin even had his mother in a Palace that use to belong to the Russian Royal Family whilst the average Russian family stayed in their run down homes and were subjected to even worse poverty than before. Yup, true equality……
If it weren’t for capitalism, there would be no money to pay for socialist ideals.
Socialism is not some panacea for our problems. Ireland could make billions by growing tourism on a united Ireland platform, FF want to do this while keeping out of the north entirely (all Ireland promotion and enterprises for mutual benefit only) as it will benefit the south and safeguard them should the North’s economic growth be successful. They will be all over a united Ireland then.
But it wont be socialism that unites this island. Quite the opposite
Equality and fairness yes, socialism no.
Fiosrach, don’t focus too much on tags like Right wing or Left wing, they’re used to simplify things and group people together but they are usually highly inaccurate. Many people say they are “Socialist” but may hold “Conservative” views on some topics and vice versa.
I just have my own views. When it comes to the economy, I believe in free but limited health care for everybody, limited in the sense you pay for your health care if you earn a large salary or if you turn up at A & E drunk then u pay the bill, not the tax payer. I believe the benefits system in Ireland should be changed so that people have to be resident in Ireland for 3 years before entitlement and have to pay a certain amount in tax before they can be entitled to anything from tax payers money. I also believe that some benefits should be paid back in instalments once someone has a job (not sick benefit though), I don’t agree with sanctions. I support low immigration here and a complete stop to emigration, we should only take in people from abroad who we NEED but our own people should be trained (especially those on benefits) to do jobs we need done here. I believe in free education at University but only in areas where we need more students, such as Engineering, Science, Technology, Maths, etc. We need less Teachers or Lawyers and more wealth creators like Scientists and Mechanical/Computing Engineers. And so on.
I’m definitely more Conservative than Socialist, which is surprising given my whole family are Socialist minded in the economic sense but definitely Conservative in a social sense, such as Anti-Abortion, etc.
“I believe in free but limited health care for everybody, limited in the sense you pay for your health care if you earn a large salary or if you turn up at A & E drunk then u pay the bill, not the tax payer. ”
So a two tier health service, I support that entirely.
If you mean the better off pay for the same service, they usually do have private cover anyway and wont share the same building.
There is no comparison to private care and NHS. NHS sucks and will only get worse.
Had it not been for private health, I would not be alive today.
Everyone working should have private or enhanced cover and able to top it up.
Drunkenness in A&E should be treated in a separate more secure building and not tie up the main A & E services.
“I believe the benefits system in Ireland should be changed so that people have to be resident in Ireland for 3 years before entitlement and have to pay a certain amount in tax before they can be entitled to anything from tax payers money. ”
I agree but this doesn’t tally with EU. Do we leave along with the UK and stick with the UK relationship where we could do this?
“I also believe that some benefits should be paid back in instalments once someone has a job (not sick benefit though), I don’t agree with sanctions. I support low immigration here and a complete stop to emigration, we should only take in people from abroad who we NEED but our own people should be trained (especially those on benefits) to do jobs we need done here. ”
You cannot stop people travelling but some good ideas.
What if someone unemployed for three years was made to do some form of work to receive benefit, either free placement in a business or if not suitable, street cleaning and community improvement schemes at least?
“I believe in free education at University but only in areas where we need more students, such as Engineering, Science, Technology, Maths, etc. We need less Teachers or Lawyers and more wealth creators like Scientists and Mechanical/Computing Engineers. And so on. ”
Why free? There would be a lot of waste. Perhaps money paid back if successful would stop people using university to get out of having to work.
Many drop out when they realise it is also hard work.
I’m definitely more Conservative than Socialist, which is surprising given my whole family are Socialist minded in the economic sense but definitely Conservative in a social sense, such as Anti-Abortion, etc.
There is nothing wrong with that Ryan, what of the worlds better economies operate on a socialist platform?
Sinn Feins policy on abortion is right, i abhor religious zealousy. They should stick to their guns on this. There are some situations where abortion is the right thing, like it or not. When churches influence state, it is always bad. The churches will lose, the catholic church in Ireland is in decline mainly over their hard line stance. Like the unionist population, they will decline with age also.
SF have more to gain from collapse of Stormo than the DUP – SF can therefore hold out for Justice to be either them or the DUP (let DUP have first crack).
The DUP will be damaged by that arrangement (rather than SF) – so no real downside.
The grand old duke of Stormont,
He had so many men,
He marched them into the Executive,
And he marched them out again!
Or to cog from the Frank McGuinness play: ‘Observe the loyal sons of unionism marching into oblivion’.
But by his unilateral action he has really wrecked any hope of joint opposition with the SDLP or Alliance. Because by his claim that UUP are the official opposition, does that give them the right to grab all shadow ministries, so the others he wanted to back him would be left without any opposition titles?
A smart move maybe, but will he be smart enough to carry it through? I don’t think so.
Jude,
What is the problem from a Nationalist viewpoint? i appreciate the UUP are trying to get one up on the DUP but so what from a Nat point of view – more ministerial jobs to go round??
I think the UUP might have been better served to use the SF-getting-their-instructions-from- the-army-council angle as the reason for not going into ‘government’, as that would potentially damage /embarrass the DUP more.
Mmm- interesting, Sammy. That is a serious lapse on Mike’s part. Maybe he’s saving it for later…
Jude,
But what is the downside for Nationalists?
Sammy
It seems to me that an opposition (including the possibility of the SDLP in it) can only highlight that SF are in coalition with the DUP.
They are the establishment now and the arrival of PBP coupled with an official opposition brings that into stark relief.
Sometimes significant moments are only recognised in hindsight and I think it possible we might look back at this election as being highly significant.
I could be wrong of course. I was once before.
The DUP ran on the grounds, vote for us to keep Sinn Fein out of first minister and it worked as that is what unionists expect.
Mike has now taken this a step further by opting out, he can now say the DUP are coalition partners with Sinn Fein and the UUP are not.
I don’t really care what way that plays out with them (unionists), but is that what they really expect us to vote for in stormpot?
Have to agree with you Sammy, I don’t get the hissy fit Martin McGuinness threw over MikeTV putting the UUP into opposition. The Fresh Start Agreement, which SF champions, clearly shows that creating an Opposition is part of the agreement…..
If the SDLP had a brain cell they would hop into Opposition along with the UUP because it looks like the SDLP is just one or two elections away from non-existence and SF might be the only Nationalist party in the North unless Fianna Fail start to contest elections here…..indeed I think a Centre Right Party like Fianna Fail would encourage a lot more Catholics and even some Protestants to come out to vote…..not every Catholic is a die hard socialist, many are very Conservative on topics but who refuse to vote for the DUP or UUP…..
Not every republican is a socialist Ryan, I would be centre left but agree with and support many conservative policies.
A lot is down to timing and other factors. During a period of austerity was the wrong time to bring about water charges and at the same time write off billions to corporate tax fudging.
Ryan,
I dont think it is is in the SDLP’s interest to go into opposition – nor do I think they will. If they still get a ministerial job then they should do it – otherwise it is handing that to their political rivals.
Cant see what real pressure they are under either – they can just put UUP move down to political Unionist in fighting .
…and not in the Alliance party’s interest to go into opposition either.
Bit of a storm in stormpot (as someone referred to it earlier).
Pathetic Fallacy is a concept, Esteemed Blogmeister, you broached in the recent past.
Coincidentally, one heard of Mike Nesbitt’s decision to go into opposition just as news was breaking on the metereological front. Concerning the sudden eruption of a brand new geyser in Yellowstone National Park. Two events, both involving much gush and a splash.
Could they have been related ?
One heard of Mike Nesbitt’s decision on the flagship prog of RTE and as per usual one was mistaken at first : a case of mistaken identity.
One thought it was actually Mike Nesmith who was being namechecked and that he had broken with the Monkees for ‘musical reasons’. Till it dawned on one (the Programme was Morning Ireland) that it was in fact the other geyser, oops, the other guy, the would-be Kaiser of the Colonizers and current leader of the Yellowpack Unionist Party.
One suspects they are related, despite, as the universally lauded linguist, Gregory Campbell, will confirm, the Leprechaun for Orangeman being also the same as that for Yellowman: Fear Bui . Mike Nesbitt, of course, is not a member of the Orange Order and has never been tempted to sashay with a sash with no little panache.
Taking the pulse of dulse-land politics can be tricky for political anoraks in the Free Southern Stateen.
The clarification came as to who the unexpected decision-maker was as soon as (gulp) a Shinner began to come under the cosh on the programme. Martin McGuinness (for it was he !) was being berated, seemingly for -Mike Nesbitt’s going into opposition ! This is Mornng Ireland, folks.
Although navel-gazing talking heads tend to rule the airwaves down here on Liffeyside nonetheless they are not above gawking up long enough to take notice of our Separated Breds in Norneverland. But only if they can be used as, erm, sticks to whack the Shinners with.
Of course, another stupendous example of an even more Pathetic Fallacy was, brooched, oops, broached the previous week, involving a natural occurrence in both North America and a quintessentially human event on the Island of Ireland. And which kept our navel-gazing media with enough to be doing, just shoveling the fluffy stuff.
Being the modest, self-deprecating folk we are down here south of the Black Sow’s Dyke, this is a Pathetic Fallacy we have not taken to the roof-tops with, with a bout of trumpet-blowing in mind.
That would have been, of course, the Towering Forest Inferno in Canada and the First Anniversary of perhaps the Most Significant Advance in Human Rights Ever: the Rainbow Referendum.
Mere coincidence ? Hardly.
It is not that his momentous advancement was not flagged, this m. a. which marks the FSS out as being home not only to the Best Fans in the World (see under Football) but also the Best Trans too. (see under Political Football).
As Brendan Behan almost said: Never Throw your Tranny off the Bus ! (He or She might well be one of our own ).
It was a former Lord Mayor of Dublin, T.D. O’Sullvivan, M.P., who actually flagged – rainbow flagged – this most Pathetic of Fallacies:
-Deep in Canadian wood we’ve met, from our bright island flown
Great is the land we tread, but yet our hearts are with out own
We’ll toast old Ireland ! Dear old Ireland ! Ireland boys, hurrah !
One can almost hear the usual suspects snort – ‘this sounds more like a Pathetic (gulp) Phallusy !
Only for our go-to guru on all things gurning, Starlet of the Abbey Stage, Honorary Doctorate from TCD and President-in-Waiting Panty Bliss to retort:
-Penetrate deeper into the Canadian woods, possums – and other scaredy cats !
Sure enough, scrolling down to verse four, one finds:
– We’ve seen the wedding and the wake, the pattern and the fair
And lithe young frames at the dear old games in the kindly Irish air
And the loud ‘Hurroo!’, we’ve heard that too, and thundering ‘clear the way !’
Here’s gay old Ireland ! Dear old Ireland ! Ireland boys hurrah !.
Being global brand leaders in tolerance, is a time consuming business for the Free Southern Stateen. So it is hoped that discerning folk up there in Norneverland appreciate that it is not out of intolerance that some of us down here can sometimes get confused.
And mistake one of the dreamy leaders of the Hohenzollerance tendency whose loyalty is to Hausfrau Saxe-Coburg-Gotha with the singer of the following ditty, who was of course, Mike Nesmith of the Monkees:
-Cheer up, sleepy Evergreen, oh what can this mean
To a daydream believer and a homecoming queen.
the seating arrangements will be good craic,ime sure jim allister will be hoking through all the ancient laws to make the change.sf/dup on one side and the opposition on the other how embarrassing will this become when their cutting the tripe out of peoples benifits ect especially when its televised,arlenes on there shouting she will make the arrangements she won the election.lolol