Why are the DUP the only political party that is firmly in favour of BREXIT? Sammy Wilson has been appearing on TV programme after TV programme, ditto Gregory Campbell, and Arlene Foster has been emphatic when the question is put to her: we must get rid of the undemocratic system where unelected people in Europe make the decisions for us, not always in our interest. Time for Great Britain to start being Great again.
And the down side of all this glorious breaking of the European chains? Well, none really, not if you’re a unionist. People complain that the border between the north and south of Ireland will become ‘hard’, that we’ll be back to customs posts and passport examination. For the DUP that’s not a complaint, that’s fine and dandy. It’s the invisible nature of the border at present that gets them feeling jittery. Is the physical absence of the border a harbinger of its legal abolition in days to come? An armed, guarded border where you’re let know you’re going into or coming from a foreign country suits them just fine.
But the Derry-based economist and commentator Paul Gosling has suggested another future for the island of Ireland. The fact of the matter is that the border between north and south is simply too porous, too full of obscure side-roads and houses and fields that straddle the border, total monitoring of it is simply too difficult. The answer? Britain will essentially concede illegal entry to the north and concentrate on a far more manageable situation, the guarding of ports and airports into Britain. A report from the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee is unambiguous:
“The UUP told us they had been told by the Government that it did not envisage policing the border with the Republic and that the Government’s preferred solution would be to put in place a more robust system of checks at relevant ports and airports on the mainland (sic).”
If that is true and were BREXIT to occur, the DUP would be seen as guilty of scoring the biggest own-goal since Ciaran Clark headed the ball into the net against Sweden.
Footnote: a woman in Stoke-on-Trent was interviewed about BREXIT the other day by the Guardian: ““We want our government to run our country, not someone we’ve not elected in another bloody country. And that’s it. I want my country back”.
And to think, English people often accuse Americans of not getting irony…
Surely PeopleBeforeProfit are also in favour of Brexit?
It really is an odd way for a “unionist ” to think when you study it …especially the kind of “unionist” we have so far experienced.A “unionist’s” default position should by all accounts be one that encourages further “union” with the rest of Ireland , for example, to return them to the “good old days” of an all- Ireland and british union such as the pre-1916 position of one hundred years ago . You’d think that they’d be glad ,as “unionists”, to be part of an even greater union of Ireland ,Britain and the various countries of Europe….but it’s not so .Their idea of “union” is a very narrow vision of their piddling little six- county construct, delivered in fear and clung onto by any means, attached by invisible umbilical to London alone. it’s a tight-arsed ,frightened unionism, maintained by fear that they cling to….not a shared union of mutual benefits that others aspire to.
Sammy and Gregory would be of the Donald Trump persuasion, without any doubt. Were it possible they’d build a wall like Hadrian did or like the Great Wall of China ,constructed to keep out the barbarian hordes. They’d have it manned with watchtowers , barbed -wire and assorted soldiery and border guards checking passports. Many of us will remember being funnelled through border checkpoints in the past , before crossing into the Republic of Ireland or returning to the north…even after going on holiday . That’s not too long ago but I’d say that Sammy and Geoffrey would harken back to those days when everyone knew their place and dream of a re-instatement of same which would require another tidy little industry of enforcement to replace the unionist gravy -train that was the UDR. Just look what the assault on the Twin Towers did for the security industry at airports throughout the land. Jobs for the boys, again?
Hit the nail on the head Jude. A hard border is their Raison D’etre.
Grma, Wes
well border or no border somethings gonna have to be done to stop the hordes coming.most people voting brexit are voting over the benefit tourists they see taking houses,school places ect,the border would only need tightened until a few new laws were put in place regarding no benefits,anybody housing or employing illegals jailed.with the proper laws brought in why would they want to cross the border.
Billy a report written by Professor Peter Shirlow and Dr Richard Montague at Queen’s University in 2012 challenged commonly held misconceptions about migrants, namely the following:
* Migrant workers contributed about £1.2bn to the economy from 2004 to 2008
* 4% of the Northern Ireland workforce is made up of migrant workers
* 3% of the total number of pupils attending school in Northern Ireland are ethnic minorities
* 81.5% of migrants in the UK are employed
* Less than 5% of EU migrants claim Jobseekers Allowance
* The cost of temporary migrants using the health service amounted to about £12m of the £109bn NHS budget
At a very basic level Billy you need to understand that migrants not only contribute positively to our communities, but they also contribute economically. These groups of people are easy targets. You would be wiser to spend your time complaining about the active tax avoidance Cameron and his buddies allow.
oh them 2.who would listen to them after their report on dismantling the barricades for which they were well paid as usual.they would draw a report up for anybody who was paying in this case the stay camp.
Hi Eamon, you make a good case regarding the benefits migrants bring, but i feel you miss a trick in not considering that every migrant that travels here puts them in direct competition for every job and school place here? Is that a good thing for the ordinary five eight? I’m not entirely convinced, but I’m open to persuasion.
BBTB you do make a good point, however with more competition for jobs our economy becomes more competitive, therefore we are able to export more as we are more productive. Also with more people here they will increase the demand for consumption goods such as food, drink etc. This in itself supports jobs in the local community.
I understand your concerns in relation to school places, but speaking as a teacher myself I have found that the strong work ethic of Eastern Europeans in general rubs off on the rest of the pupils. Never mind the fact that the £1.2billion generated in tax revenue goes a long way to paying for school places
“Migrant workers contributed about £1.2bn to the economy from 2004 to 2008”
If these migrant workers had not come, I wonder how many of these jobs would not have been filled otherwise?
Since there is also an unemployment level, do you know how much does immigration prevent a reduction in the unemployment rate?
“4% of the Northern Ireland workforce is made up of migrant workers”
There is a 25% over employment level in the public sector which goes a lot of the way to our 10 billion deficit.
Are you suggesting the 4% migrant workers is a good thing, and if so why?
“3% of the total number of pupils attending school in Northern Ireland are ethnic minorities”
Yes, and also get first preferences. Local children have had families split up into different schools over the sheer numbers of ethnic minority children flooding into the system.
“81.5% of migrants in the UK are employed”
How is that impacting on the unemployment rate for nationals, positively or negatively?
I take it the English are not simply against this for spite?
I would be interested in those stats Eamon if you have them.
“If these migrant workers had not come, I wonder how many of these jobs would not have been filled otherwise?”
Jessica think of the type of jobs most of these migrants end up doing. Take a look at Dungannon in the meat factories. The MD of Moy Park is on record saying that he can’t get local people to work in the factories on a long-term basis. They even started putting on buses running from Magherafelt and Cookstown to try and secure steady employment to no avail. Look at another big area such as nursing. The medical profession has been actively recruiting for years to try and fill the gap and haven’t. Would you rather our hospitals had less nurses?
“Since there is also an unemployment level, do you know how much does immigration prevent a reduction in the unemployment rate?”
No idea Jessica but as I said earlier the basic laws of supply and demand mean that when people live here they need to consume food and pay for accommodation. All of this increases the rate of consumption in the economy which increases economic growth. Basically it means that because they are here it creates employment for others. On another note, if the migrants were not here then businesses such as Moy Park would close down which would mean not only job losses there but also for their suppliers. Therefore immigration does lower the unemployment rate.
“There is a 25% over employment level in the public sector which goes a lot of the way to our 10 billion deficit.”
Why do you think that the public sector employment is too high. Do you think there are too many teachers in our schools? Do you think there are too many nurses in our hospitals? Is it possible that you have bought into the Tory idea of getting rid of the public sector? Instead of making the public sector a race to the bottom why not grow the private sector so the individual businesses can pay more tax to the government which it can distribute through its fiscal policy.
Also the £10 billion deficit you to, do you mean the block grant? If so I should point out that it is no longer £10 billion in real terms as it has been reduced as it was not kept in line with inflation. Also if it is the block grant I should also note that this idea that we should be grateful to the British treasury for it is ridiculous. We pay our taxes and the British treasury has never released what the total of this sum is. I have my own views on why they don’t do this.
“Local children have had families split up into different schools over the sheer numbers of ethnic minority children flooding into the system.”
Can you provide stats to back this up or is this again another so called ‘fact’ from the right wing agenda. There is a policy in our country where by people from lower income backgrounds get first preference in schools in order to break the cycle of poverty. It is a crude system but I can see the logic in it. As a teacher in one of the North’s largest grammar schools I can tell you there is clearly inequality in the system but is it down to economic backgrounds. Clearly parents who can afford private tutors at £20 per hour each week have a distinct advantage over others who do not have this disposable income. Would you not agree that the problem is under investment in our schools? If ever school was a good school this problem would not exist.
“81.5% of migrants in the UK are employed” “How is that impacting on the unemployment rate for nationals, positively or negatively?”
Positively, without a doubt. If they are working then they are paying tax to the system. This tax helps me and you when we need to see a doctor etc.
Jessica in a year when we are celebrating a 100 years since the Easter Rising I would suggest that you go and read some of the works of James Connelly.
employing them gives them a false sense if they work here their entitled to stay send for family members ect then if its not controlled your over run.thats why there needs to be some sort of points system we let in who we need then when they retire they go home and we let the next batch in depending on their points.this place is to small to have communitys who dont integrate its not aus or usa.
Why would they want to cross the border indeed Billy, with narrow minded attitudes and Sammy and Gregory living there. Belfast is not the centre of the universe
why would they want to cross the border indeed……………thats what ime saying change the rules ie,no benefits whatsoever and they wont come.any of them needed doctors ect all on a points system until we invest in training our own young people up to fill these posts.
I agree with much of what you say Billy. Yes many migrants do work in our health system and do a great job and all credit to them but are we ABSOLUTELY dependent on them? No, that’s just a myth and a lie. We could easily train our own people to be doctors and nurses. Indeed my grandmother and mother worked in the Royal Victoria Hospital for years, between them they maybe worked there for over 30 years. My next door neighbour is a nurse who works in the Royal.
I mentioned before on this blog that I was on benefits for two years. I believe people should work for their benefits. Now I don’t support the tory system of working 30-40 hours a week for £60. I think people should work different hours depending on how much they get in benefits. So my system would be if, lets say, the minimum wage is £10 per hour, then if your getting £90 a fortnight (which was what I was getting) then you should work no more than 9 hours a fortnight. I think that’s fair. That work can be community work, helping and looking after the elderly, litter picking, etc
When I was on benefits the thing I hated most was the idleness and the boredom. I had too much time on my hands. Obviously I was job searching and it eventually paid off but other times I was idle. As George Orwell said in “Down and Out in Paris and London”: “one of the greatest evils of poverty is idleness, these people want to work and are use to work but they are given no work but aimless wondering from doss house to doss house”.
I agree with Orwell 100%. People, especially young people, have to work. Obviously the sick should be exempt. Indeed if there was more jobs and less people on benefits then MORE could be paid to people on sickness benefit and the elderly.
I think your picture for ulta-Loyalists in the DUP is a correct one.
Brexit sums up everything they hold dear,
– Keep immigrants out,
– Keep foreign interference out,
– Keep the Irish Republic out!
For those type Loyalists who are only capable of binary (them and us) thinking the EC has been an unwelcome distraction one which they have not been able to bully, threaten or cajole.
Equality has never been welcomed by certain elements in the DUP and they are still fighting it every inch of the way and the EU with its legislation has imposed equality against their will and over their heads.
How long after a Brexit would it take before those elements begin fighting for an exemption from the judgements of European Court of Human rights?
Great stuff.jude.
Thanks.Jim.
“How long after a Brexit would it take before those elements begin fighting for an exemption from the judgements of European Court of Human rights?”
Actually only a few days. As far as I understand it one of the first things brexiters plan to do is to take back English laws into English hands – which will mean a big, big setback for anyone that’s appealing for truth and justice on ECHR grounds and britain’s refusal to fulfil its obligations under art 2 (see loughinisland families, among others).
http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/679927/Brexit-Cameron-blow-EU-exit-plan-Gove-Patel-Tory-bills
Anyway here’s a series of very readable articles, from a lawyer working in Europe, who analysed in-depth the implications of brexit on northern ireland
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2016/06/14/brexit-and-northern-ireland/
I am voting for Brexit as I no more elected the bureaucrats of the EU than I elected the British Govt.
The EU is a friend on no one but the very rich. You only have to look at the austerity forced upon Greece and the Republic to see that.
Also they can hardly claim to be democrats hence the second vote in the South on the Lisbon treaty when the first vote did not go their way.
Lets see how things fall when the Brits leave and as for a hard border hasn’t really worked before and I don’t see it working now.
We’re continually being told by Brexiteers that when they succeed in the referendum that it will make no difference to the border with Southern Ireland.
We’re also being told that the only way to control immigration is to get out of EU so we are responsible for our own borders.
So Brexit happens, there is no change to the border and the South stays in the EU:
A couple of thousand immigrants arrive in Dublin from France, they are directed by the Gardai on to the Enterprise to Belfast where they arrive without any customs or immigration checks.
Next move: over from Belfast to Heysham/Liverpool as their intended destination.
Who is then responsible for them? Can they be thrown out: to where? Will they finish up in English jails or holding centres, and for how long?
Have these Brexiteers really thought about such ramifications?
There would have to be passport checks to cross over to GB to control immigration and a customs check on all roads into ROI to satisfy EU trade rules.
Can you imagine the chaos on the main motorway to Dublin if these checkpoints are implemented? We’re being thrown into turmoil here to placate the rampant egos of the British Tory party. It’s a bloody scandal it’s come to this.
SUPER DUPER DUO
The tribute band of Wham are wee Sam and Greg
Who wake us up before they go go to shake a leg
Lagan and Foyle
Slaggin’, no style
From the original Hausfrau they much prefer to beg.
Ian Paisley did not wish to leave the EU. Jim Jim Allister, Jim Nicholson and Diane Dodds appeared comfortable and content with the EU until Mr Cameron opened up the Brexit debate. Mike Nesbitt and his party, with the possible exception of Tom Elliot, wish to stay in the EU. The UUP MP for Fermanagh South Tyrone, says he will ‘probably’ vote leave in the EU referendum.
Probably some people would like to see a return to the era of the Berlin Wall or the Iron Curtain. Probably some people would be delighted to score such an own-goal but let us not forget, an own-goal is an act that unintentionally harms one’s own interests.
How would a BREXIT affect the institutions, economic and cross border co-operation as outlined in the GFA with the South?
The GFA would basically be void in the event of a Brexit, TheHist.
A new agreement would need to be made and I think that’s a good thing. Republicans are in a far stronger position politically today than we were in 1998. I would push for Joint Rule.
The DUP and most Unionists are basically Turkey’s voting for Christmas when it comes to the EU Referendum.
The NI economy is already a cesspit, its lucky to even reach 1% growth. The majority of its jobs are public sector jobs. You don’t need a degree in Economics to know those jobs don’t promote growth, they are a DRAIN to our economy. When it comes to private sector jobs we’re losing them faster than a tramp loses friends. Bombardier is cutting over 1000 jobs here. Hundreds of jobs have been lost in Ballymena alone. And the main jobs being brought in by Invest NI are call centre type jobs that are temporary, low paying and the companies are only here to get the grants then they leave.
The EU invests BILLIONS here, they give peace funding, they give grants and its arguable that they care more about the peace process than Westminster does. If we lose that EU money then forget about NI’s economy growing by 1%, our economy will be shrinking.
What is Unionisms back up plan? because Westminster already said they wont be replacing the billions lost to NI. Even Theresa Villiers, who backs a Brexit, said that funding wont be replaced. So what is Unionism going to do? They can barely keep Stormont stable, never mind creating a successful economy.
This is actually a massive opportunity for Republicans here and Scottish Nationalists. Its time Republicans pulled the finger out and started a campaign that showed the REALITY and the FACTS about the British Union because we are being ripped off by being in the UK and most people, even many republicans, are fooled by myth’s. There is no economic argument to staying in the Union, all the DUP can quote is the GDP of the UK which means nothing to the average joe. What has the UK brought to NI? NI has existed for almost a century and its always been a mess. What DOES matter is Quality of Life, average income levels, opportunities for people, etc and a United Ireland gives all those things far more than NI does.
Well said Ryan. Only last month there was a report released stating that people in the North of Ireland have the lowest disposable income in the so called United Kingdom. Married to the fact that we also have the lowest wages in the UK it’s clear this place is an economic basket case.
But the Unionists couldn’t give a fiddlers about all that. As long as they’re in the UK and can live out their Little Britain fantasies and go marching every July they’re happy with the status quo.