I’ve just come from listening to the lovely Mishal Husain interviewing Ken Livingstone about the death and achievements of Fidel Castro. If you ever had some deluded notion about impartiality on the BBC, a listen to it should straighten your head. Mishal wanted to know what Livingstone’s views were on the fact that Cuba was not a democracy under Castro, that he was ruthless in his treatment of enemies, that the country had none of the benefits of developed countries (presumably like Britain). It was useless for Livingstone to point out that Cuba had an outstanding health care system, free and available to all. For example, in 2012, infant mortality in Cuba had fallen to 4.83 deaths per 1,000 live births, compared with 6.0 for the United States. Useless for him to talk about education: literacy rates for adults in Cuba are 99.7%, while in the US literacy rates are 86%, with 21% of all adults reading at Grade 5 level. Useless for him to talk about the dictator Batista who was overthrown by Castro and his small band of men. Useless to talk about the CIA’s eight attempts to kill Castro. Useless to talk about the attempted Bay of Pigs invasion.
It’s common to talk about Cuba being “in America’s back yard”. Cuba is in nobody’s backyard – it is a proud and fiercely independent nation, despite decades of embargo and aggression by the US. People who have visited Cuba will tell you how relaxed and friendly the people are, how much the people – particularly the more elderly people who remember what life was like under Batista – adore Castro. How can anyone from Britain or the US criticise its absence of democracy, when those two powers invaded Iraq because they didn’t like the man running it, and the US used Cuba as a gambling brothel before Castro took power? And of course today Guantanamo Bay is still a watchword for violation of human rights. It would be laughable if it weren’t so hypocritical.
Castro came from a wealthy family, yet devoted his life to the welfare of his people. Without doubt there were freedoms that he did not tolerate – freedom of speech, freedom of the press, an opposition in a parliament. But as Ken Livingstone managed to squeeze in, when a country is at war, which Cuba was effectively for decades, thanks to the US’s constant hostility, it doesn’t hold elections, permit a great number of what we’d see as our democratic entitlements.
Of course there were Cubans, some of them Castro’s own relatives, who hated Castro and his regime. But the huge majority of the people there were devoted to him, and will feel a great sadness at the loss of a great man. The least the BBC could do would be to report that.
Now listen to a great song about a great man.
Beware of heroes, they invariably have feet of clay.
https://www.hrw.org/news/2008/02/18/cuba-fidel-castros-abusive-machinery-remains-intact
True, gio. But not as true as the need to beware of cynics, who know the value of nothing…
Hardly cynical to view a person warts and all.
I would not want to use the term ‘a great man’ about someone who was known to repress dissent and with a history of victimising homosexual groups and seemingly censoring media and internet use.
But hey, maybe human rights are beneath the notice of a truly great man.
Gio – every time I think you’re a fair-minded man (?) you come out with something like that and disappoint me. You are (as they say) better than that.
Ouch!
Jude if you are having a wee personal dig at me it can only mean you have no dispute with the substance of my comment.
Gio, don’t you see any irony in your comment? When you vote for Unionist parties that have a track record of victimising gay people, even up to this very day? It was the DUP, the largest Unionist party, that wanted to keep homosexuality illegal and still would keep it illegal if they could (Ref. Peter Robinsons comment to Mark Carruthers that he “hoped people would obey the law” if homosexuality was illegal again….). Sammy Wilson is most renowned for his anti-gay comments and yet he receives thousands of votes from Unionists….”I don’t care if gays pay rates, to me they are nothing but perverts”.
“was known to repress dissent ”
Political Unionism didn’t try and doesn’t try today to repress people who don’t share their views?….Arlene Fosters blocking funds for inquests: “We wont have History rewritten” aka “We wont have the truth being exposed”. Kenny Donaldson, a Unionist victims campaigner on Nolan Show: “Republicans shouldn’t have a narrative”….
“Political Unionism didn’t try and doesn’t try today to repress people who don’t share their views?….Arlene Fosters blocking funds for inquests: “We wont have History rewritten” aka “We wont have the truth being exposed”. Kenny Donaldson, a Unionist victims campaigner on Nolan Show: “Republicans shouldn’t have a narrative”….”
So it’s wrong to oppress gays in Ireland but OK.in Cuba?
Another one who didn’t need a referendum to do the right thing I.e remove a corrupt exploiter of his people. Rest in peace Fidel.
The thing is WT without a referendum (democracy) who determines what the “right” thing is?
Removing exploitation by a greedy cabal is self explanatory. In case you havnt noticed the biggest champions of ‘democracy’ have tended to be quite dictatorial when the opportunity presents itself. The zeal in which they want to bring ‘democracy’ to other regions/countries of the world would suggest they view democracy as some sort of weapon to further their greedy interests? Ruling by fooling isn’t the ‘democracy’ we would imagine it to be.
“The thing is WT without a referendum (democracy) who determines what the “right” thing is?”
Your under the impression that democracy always gets it right Scott. Most people think democracy is the dogs privates but its not really. Don’t get me wrong, I think democracy is a good thing in general but there’s numerous instances where its been bad and where its been easily corrupted, our own dear little statelet in the North is a good example.
Its also foolish to believe just because a majority of people vote for something that must be the right and moral thing. Having most people agree with your (or my) point of view doesn’t make it “right” or “moral”.
Democracy is simply a greater number of people ruling. Having the greater number on your side doesn’t make anyone “right”, the content of your policies/beliefs determines that. Whether your in a minority or majority is irrelevant.
“Its also foolish to believe just because a majority of people vote for something that must be the right and moral thing. Having most people agree with your (or my) point of view doesn’t make it “right” or “moral”.”
Better to have an unelected clique making the “right” decisions (as they see it).than risking the people.making the wrong decisions.
This is where you end up when Patrick Pearse is a role.model.
“Another one who didn’t need a referendum to do the right thing I.e remove a corrupt exploiter of his people. Rest in peace Fidel.”
There was no means of democratic expression under Batista.
Remove one dictator and replace him with another isn’t very democratic.
Interesting to see the masks slip.
No doubt many Irish politicians will be dominating the airwaves with their views on Fidel but the one leader who actually met him and whose colleagues are remembered by monuments in Havana will be sidelined.Similar to the scant coverage that Gerry was given when Mandela died ,despite him being the only politician from all of Europe to be part of Mandela’s honour guard.
“despite him being the only politician from all of Europe to be part of Mandela’s honour guard”
The British PM and US President were in the crowd whilst Gerry was a pallbearer for Mandela….that alone tells you how much Mandela valued Gerry over the most powerful man in the World and his sidekick, Davy Cameron….truth is most politicians didn’t give a hoot about Mandela when he was locked away in prison, they just sponged off his popularity when he was freed. David Cameron is even on camera at a protest calling for Mandela to be executed when he was younger…..he actually had the cheek to turn up and pay his respects at Mandela’s funeral…..
“No doubt many Irish politicians will be dominating the airwaves with their views on Fidel but the one leader who actually met him and whose colleagues are remembered by monuments in Havana will be sidelined.Similar to the scant coverage that Gerry was given when Mandela died ,despite him being the only politician from all of Europe to be part of Mandela’s honour guard.”
Gerry’s conversion to democracy did come quite late in his career.
“Gerry’s conversion to democracy did come quite late in his career”
While Political Unionism is very picky when they are democrats…..depends on if the vote is in their favour…..
Hafd the pleasure to visit cuba early 2000. A wonderfull place very little crime and a wonferfull health service viva victoria sempre RIP Fidel
“Hafd the pleasure to visit cuba early 2000. A wonderfull place very little crime and a wonferfull health service viva victoria sempre RIP Fidel”
You sound like the tourists who used to go on holiday to Franco’s Spain and come home raving about it.
The Cuban connection with Irlanda, Esteemed Blogmeister, has never been less than a fascinating one, from the political all the way up to the sporting.
Commencing with the putative father of the Founding Father of the Free Southern Stateen: though there is still a lingering doubt there or thereabouts. Apart from whether Vivion De Valera actually hailed from Cuba or Spain there is also a hedge school of thought which suggests that The Long Fellow’s pater might well have been a craytur from the same county as the infamous five-line verse itself and perversely, Michael Noonan himself.
Mill-uns of opin-uns, some jab to sift through them all. Besides, this is not the t. nor the p. to ask:
-Who’s yo Daddy, Dev ?
On the sporting front one of the great unsung heroes of Irish sport is one, Nicholas Cruz Hernandez. One has a vivid recollection of greeting him in the most Hogarthian of Dublin thoroughfares, Camden Street. It was a February day when the east wind bit shrewdly, sometime in the first half of the 1990s.
What struck one about the Cuban was the contrast between his cheery greeting and the flimsiness of his unseasonal attire. One found it difficult to imagine encountering another sporting hero, one whose praises had been all tongued out, as it were, under similar unprepossessing circumstances.
That would have been Jack Charlton whose stellar career as managing a team which had actually won, erm, sweet Fanny A. was about to peter out , just as the more modest career of Nicholas Cruz, which merely encompassed coaching a Dublin and Belfast boxer to Olympic medals, had recently peaked.
But then, whereas the Chalrton biz was that of the Bootyful Game, the sport of Cruz was boxing, amateur. No Freedom of the City for the Cuban who had been seconded to the Capitalist FSS by the Caribbean Communist government, and who combined his duties as an Olympic coach with that of janitor in the National Stadium.
That brief encounter on Camden Street, might well have been a fleeting, sleety lesson in the contrasting fortunes of Capitalism and Communism, or maybe, even, not.
(Incidentally, there is no two-legged theory capable of standing up which posits that Conor Cruise had any hand, act or part in the paternity of Nicholas Cruz, whose contribution to the island of Ireland was positive, and in the green corner).
The other sporting connection occurred in the late 90s when the dinosaurs of the dominant Dublin football team of the 70s were introduced to the fans of the present at half time on All-Ireland Day.in Croke Park.
Most dramatic moment of this 25th anniversary tribute occurred when the name of dynamic Dublin forward of the past, David Hickey, was called by the guy on the tannoy.
In an unexpected move reminiscent of both his own playing days and, erm, Superman, he stepped forward, acknowledged the round of applause, before turning his back on the Hogan Stand, containing the American Ambassador (not named Nigel), removing his jacket to display a T-shirt with the following slogan:
-Stop the Boycott of Cuba !
David Hickey’s day job, it might be said, for which he was less celebrated, was that of a transplant surgeon in Beaumont Hospital, a post which involved liaising closely with the gold medal Cuban Medical System.
AT LEAST FIDEL MEANT WELL
Everything from gastroenteritis to – astro
Physics was controlled in Cuba by Castro
Havana of no czar
Close but no cigar
Front row there still as well as a last row.
Una cuba libra, para mi !
Perkin – as my friend pointed out on your comment on The Quiet Man – you know EVERYTHING. Maith thú aris (agus aris agus…)
Jude, a chara, would that it were true. Alas, see under Paddykool re Bob Dylan’s taste in headgear.
Beir bua,
The Omniscient Gom.
Havana has celebrated Gay Pride with a big demo for 20+ years now. Castro didn’t invent macho – but did quite a lot to cut it down to size in the Spanish-speaking world.
Seán
I do understand things have improved in recent times and Fidel regretted some of his statements and actions of the past.
I do not dispute the many positive things he did in Cuba.
I do feel it is better to be clear eyed in looking at an individual’s record before conferring greatness on them.
“Mishal wanted to know what Livingstone’s views were on the fact that Cuba was not a democracy under Castro”
Nor is the West, we’re just under the illusion that we’re a democracy. I would say the only country on Earth that is closest to a true democracy is maybe Switzerland, they have a system called “Direct Democracy”. Any change in the Law/Constitution can be put to a referendum if requested. If Switzerland were to have joined up with the US/UK in the invasion of Iraq in 2003, it would’ve definitely have been put to a referendum. No such referendum was on offer in the UK/US for permission to invade Iraq. Indeed to be able to get elected in the West really does depend on how much money you have behind you. If you don’t have the cash to fund a campaign then you don’t stand a chance. Is that democratic?…
It was Noam Chomsky that said we don’t have freedom of speech either, we’re just allowed to voice our views within acceptable limits. The media sways the tone of opinion. Behind the media are the political elite. For example, we see how the media behave here in Ireland against Sinn Fein, its far from neutral or fair.
” that he was ruthless in his treatment of enemies”
The UK and US aren’t ruthless in the treatment of their enemies?…..
” that the country had none of the benefits of developed countries (presumably like Britain)”
Most of the “benefits” the UK/US enjoys is funded through debt, only nations like Germany truly make products, sell them and reap the benefits. That’s true wealth. The UK/US make very little in comparison to China, their economies are all based on mostly Banking, which creates nothing except debt and interest.
Just this week the British Chancellor said that the UK will be borrowing another £100 BILLION simply due to Brexit (excludes interest). He also said that Brexit will ultimately cost the UK £60 BILLION, that’s just to leave the EU. George Osborne, the former Chancellor, expected the UK to be in a surplus by 2018, the UK is now forecast to be in a bigger deficit than 5 years ago and growth has been cut by over 2%. Indeed austerity is expected to be extended beyond 2019 (UK wont even be out of the EU by 2019, according to Theresa May) if that is true, then that means the UK will have been in austerity for over 10 years, with more years of austerity very likely…..that’s if the UK even exists by then….
Few nations in the West have TRUE wealth. Ireland shouldn’t make the same mistakes the UK/US are making. We need more Irish entrepreneurs and we need to be MAKING things of value and selling them, especially in important markets like Science, Computing, Robotics, etc. We also have to urgently deal with this Irish culture of emigration and the brain drain that occurs every time we get into financial difficulty.
I don’t agree with everything Castro stood for but he did a lot less harm to the World than many US Presidents have done. The US Government have a very imperialistic view of the World and without a doubt they always eyed Cuba to be under their control. Castro stopped that. In doing so he had to survive many CIA attempts on his life (I read the CIA tried to kill him over 600 times….). Now, if anyone tried to murder the British PM or US President, that would be considered terrorism or a crime. Trying to murder Castro is a crime too and the US Government are guilty of it.
I’m not criticizing all Americans, indeed Ireland is very close to over 40 million Irish Americans but the US Government isn’t under the control or working for the American people. The US Government is under the control of an international clique made up of very powerful and wealthy people, as is much of the West. These same people had the invasion of Iraq planned since the early 1990’s (Read Project for the New American Century). They also want to get rid of Iran, without a doubt that’s where Hillary Clinton would’ve invaded next if she had won against Trump.
2016 has claimed another very famous face this year in the form of Fidel Castro. He may have been ruthless towards his enemies but without a doubt he was a man who served his people, bettered their lives and will be remembered by them for doing that. As I said I’m no Communist, I don’t agree with everything Castro stood for but he was worthy of respect. #VIVAFIDEL #VIVACUBA !!! #RIPCastro
So who needs democracy and human rights, Jude? As long as there’s a good health service (for those who don’t rock the boat) we can live with, indeed praise a dictator who denies free speech, censors the media, locks up opponents without trial.
Mussolini made the trains run.on time.
‘Praise a dictator who denies free speech, censors the media, locks up opponents without trial.
From memory Maggie Thatcher imposed all of these restrictions in the north of Ireland.
Hope you would agree she wasn’t a democrat either!
“‘Praise a dictator who denies free speech, censors the media, locks up opponents without trial.
From memory Maggie Thatcher imposed all of these restrictions in the north of Ireland.
Hope you would agree she wasn’t a democrat either!:
Not aware of anything other than the hapless broadcasting ban, which republicans opposed. OK in Cuba but not in Ireland? Hypocrisy.
Thatcher stood in a free election. Castro banned free elections.
“Thatcher stood in a free election”
So did Sinn Fein and the Hunger Strikers….
“So did Sinn Fein and the Hunger Strikers….”
They did indeed. And were defeated every time.
A freedom that would have been denied to them in Cuba.
“From memory Maggie Thatcher imposed all of these restrictions in the north of Ireland.
Hope you would agree she wasn’t a democrat either”
Don’t be silly Sherdy! that was against those pesky Republicans, so that was OK…..