OK – this thing about voting ‘cross-community’ – who’s for it or against it?
The Belfast Telegraph is for it. Or says it is. In an editorial a while back it lamented that ‘Tribalism still reigns after twenty years of peace” and commended Mike Nesbitt’s statement that he was giving his second-preference to the SDLP.
That’s rather different from the reaction of Mike’s UUP colleagues. Led by Danny Kennedy, the UUP deputy leader, the UUP candidates resembled scalded cats in their haste to reassure the public that they wouldn’t be following their leader’s lead. No, sir: their second-preferences would go to a fellow-unionist.
The DUP leader Arlene Foster also came out very firmly against it, saying that ‘cross-community’ second preferences could lead to more nationalist/republicans being elected and the calling of a border poll. The fact that our floating feather of a SoS James Brokenshire is the only one can call a border poll seems to have slipped Arlene’s attention temporarily.
So which is it – do we say that giving nationalists/republicans a second preference is good, enlightened twenty-first century thinking, or a slippery slope that’d end in a border poll?
Well, first let me bang on the head this idea that you’re some sort of troglodyte if you think voting for partition or against it is a good thing. We may or may not like it, but the fact that Ireland is divided by a border is a pretty big issue and particularly big with Brexit coming up fast. In my book it makes perfect sense to believe in and work for a united Ireland; likewise I imagine most unionists see it is a good and fitting thing that partition be maintained. The fact that I think they’ve got the wrong side of the argument, not to mention history, doesn’t change anything. From that point of view, Arlene is right to say unionists shouldn’t transfer to non-unionist candidates, since that might strengthen the hand of anti-partitionists.
Although there are a couple of problems with that. The UUP and the SDLP are acting as though this was the first time that anyone had so much as thought of ‘cross-community’ voting, let alone doing it. The truth is, it’s been going on for decades. How do you think some SDLP candidates get elected in Fermanagh-South Tyrone? Or South Down? Do you think Joe Hendron would once upon a time have defeated Gerry Adams, if he hadn’t got votes from unionists? So let’s not pretend we’re inventing the wheel here, Mike. Unionists have repeatedly helped SDLP candidates over the line.
That said, keep this in mind: those unionist voters didn’t vote SDLP because they subscribed to anything in the SDLP’s manifesto. It was simply that they preferred to see SDLP people elected rather than Sinn Féin candidates.
We also need to remember that while Mike Nesbitt is now hailed as a courageous ‘cross-community’ warrior, it is a role he has slipped into rather late in the day. In 2014 he was saying stuff like this:
“We have said to the DUP that we are prepared to support their candidate in North Belfast, but in return the DUP should reciprocate the gesture and assist us in winning back the most westerly constituency in the United Kingdom for unionism, namely, Fermanagh & South Tyrone.”
Geddit? We unionists oughta stick together – the natives are getting restless.
And of course the Arlene Foster who’s urging people to vote unionist in their second preference in case a nationalist/republican gets in, because that might result in a border poll –that’s the same Arlene who in 2013 said this:
“Sinn Fein are trying to cause instability in Northern Ireland. If we have the border poll then that instability goes away and, in actual fact, what we have is a very clear validation of the union and that’s something we’re looking at at the moment…Be very careful what you wish for.”
So here’s the thing. Is Arlene trying to avoid a border poll by calling on people to vote unionist and sidestep such a ghastly vista? Because if you follow her logic in 2013, unionists should be seeking stability by, um, voting for republicans, who’d call a border poll, be defeated and then “instability goes away”.
There is one other reason for this you-show-me-your- second-preference-and-I’ll-show-you-mine pantomime: Arlene Foster would rather talk about eating live ferrets than talk about the RHI money-to-burn scandal. Which is the very reason nationalists/republicans should continue to keep it top of the menu until the last vote is counted after March 2.
Ok, we don’t vote cross community and play football, we shore up the trenches and……and……and……?
Football means politics, (ar eagla na h’eagla)
Dominic
Yes this is really just fear from SF supporters that people will actually dare to vote outside their boxes.
This is an opportunity to break down the old parallel lines of voting and shake up the establishment a bit.
SF should be calling on people to vote down the ticket and give UU a preference over the DUP too, but they are as entrenched as their partners in government it seems.
By that logic, Gio, you should also be calling on UU to call on their people to vote down the ticket and give SF a preference over the DUP.
Since you are the consistent sort, I didn’t think you would be giving SF a preference but fair play to you.
ceannaire
To be honest I would give everyone a reference over the DUP.
So yes I will probably stick SF down somewhere though I am still not a fan, not least because of Gerry Kelly’s infamous prods against taigs leaflet in my constituency.
Fair enough, Gio. I admire consistency. I cannot argue with your position.
Why should a person who supports the ideal of a united Ireland give their second preference to a candidate who supports the polar opposite? It just makes no sense. Am I missing something here?
supporting the ideal of a united ireland,then voting to elect a government to act on englands behalf just doesnt make sense.or am i missing something here.
A UI is has to be one of flesh and blood not some ideal in the mists of time. That means persuading people it’s the best option.It has an economic and a.social side, the further south you go the less it is talked about, the lower or higher you go in the social scale the less it is talked about, for different reasons. There are nuances. Those who live in the polar regions don’t seem to get that in their black and white mindset.
James
If a United Ireland was on the agenda in this election then I agree it would make sense to only support the parties that wanted that.
But we are told by Jude amongst others that this election is primarily about RHI.
A 2nd or 3rd preference for the UU could help give the DUP a strong message.
A United Ireland will not be decided in an election but by referendum and a referendum is not on the cards just yet.
I agree with you, gio (pauses and checks head) that those who favour a UI should give UUP candidates their preference before the DUP, who are responsible for this depressingly expensive scheme – not to mention other murky matters such as Red Sky and NAMA. The central factor in the election, as I see it, is definitely RHI, which obviously isn’t a constitutional issue; but being central doesn’t mean being exclusive. Other things continue to matter, including your views on the constitutional matter.
Jude
We are not voting on the constitutional issue.
You could safely vote SDLP and/or UU without jeopardising your right to vote yes in a UI referendum.
If you want it to be a vote about RHI how can it also be a vote about the constitutional issue or other issues too? Is there a box to tick giving your reasons for voting for a certain party?
There will be no referendum until there is a majority of political representatives supporting Irish reunification.
Colmán
We do not actually know what the criteria are to satisfy the SOS.
How did that happen?
But I agree that a majority nationalist/republican representation is sure to be one of the key elements.
I am not a number cruncher but from what I have read that still seems pretty unlikely this time at least.
Which is why I say the constitutional position is not really an issue.
Perhaps it should be the biggest issue.
My belief is that the constitutional question is ALWAYS the issue in elections here as partition is the source from which all of our social, political and economic disfunction stems.
There is no real government in Stormont and we don’t live in a real democracy – the Brexit vote is simply the most recent example of this. NI is part of the UK when it suits Unionism (Brexit vote) and a place apart when it doesn’t (SSM, abortion etc).
I see every vote as a vote on the border, and cast my vote accordingly. That said, I will be chucking a UUP candidate a preference in the possibly futile hope of getting rid of hateful bigot Jim Wells. Not that the UUP are any better than the DUP, but every little helps y’know?
The people of the 6 counties are about to be dragged out of the EU against their wishes because a majority in a foreign country that couldn’t give a fiddlers about them, decided that’s how it’s going to be. Like the establishment of the state itself, the whole situation is an insult to democracy and to every Irish person.
Ffs. Big deal will everyone get over this. Yes SDLP get unionist votes in westminster elections in SD and Foyle not sure about FST that sound like bollix to me if anything SF get a load of SDLP votes and yes guess whar plenty of unionists get nationalust votes say in South Antrim and i reckon lady sylvia hoovers up a lot of nationalist votes in north down. Its people being smart and often going for the least worst option when their no 1 has no hope. In an STV election go right down the ticket. Dont just vote SF 1 and stop keep going until DUP are last. Transfers do impact things especially the last seat in each constituency.
The SDLP do not transfer to Sinn Fein, certainly not in upper bann.
They transfer to unionist parties and for that reason I vote SF 1 and 2 and stop there
Unionists have a big advantage because they transfer to one another, unfortunately there is only one nationalist / republican party and with the SDLP now doing a pact with the UUP at least they are now being more honest about it.
A pact would involve shared candidates so quite clearly there is no pact. Fine you dont like SDLP well transfer to someone else, by not going down the ticket you are in fact increasing the chance of a DUP candidate sneaking in so well done you. To not transfer to sdlp because you believe they dont transfer to sf is childish. Time all nationalist parties educated their voters on how STV elections actually work.
I agree, I don’t understand the ins and outs of how stv works.
But if I don’t like what a party stands for I simply wont vote for them.
I would suggest everyone should do the same regardless who that might be and vote on their conscience or what their gut tells them.
Perhaps we would be better off if there was less voting to keep someone else out and more voting for what they think is for the best.
Absolutely time to remember why this election was called.Make no mistake that no matter what nonsense is spewed, it was the RHI scandal that brought it on and the behaviour of Arlene Foster as First Minister . It’s only mere weeks ago and the DUP are already “re-writing history” in the very way they accuse others of doing. How impossible is it to forget just how she behaved? How can anyone forget that everyone walked out on her just a few weeks ago? It was n’t just Sinn Fein. Everyone else except the DUP did it .What about the Speaker’s performance too? Was he, or was he not ,placed into the pocket of Arlene Foster and manipulated to do her bidding? Memories out there might be short but it comes down to Arlene Foster abusing her post in several different kinds of ways. All this claptrap about everything being Sinn Fein ‘s fault simply doesn’t stack up at all .In real political terms , she screwed it all up right royally and nobody could stop her doing it.
The reality is that the DUP and its supporters only want government on their own narrow terms and they don’t give a damn whether or not it is morally right or wrong . They don’t care about the thieving and knavery, the bigotry and the racism, the homophobia and all the rest of the horror-show that is their trade. They have proven that many times over and they are really pathetic.They ‘ll do anything and say anything to get their way .They’ll pay out half a million to help achieve Brexit in the UK even though the likes of Nelson McCausland( for one!) has no clue as to the repercussions while merrily burning money into the skies. At bottom all they care about is being caught -out as they have been . They do not even agree with the bloody agreements they signed. They signed them in bad faith because the EU and America were looking over their shoulders. They don’t want any more of that.That’s the kind of dunderheaded people they are.That is exactly what people are voting for . They are not voting for a modern , caring society .They are voting for paranoia.
They simply want a specific isolation and do not want to be studied too closely by any “outsiders”. It doesn’t matter to them that their citizens do not have equal rights.That is something they never wanted and still do not .At heart there is a supremacist mindset, just like there was in South Africa or the southern states of America. That’s is their complete vision in a nutshell. If it comes to the nitty gritty they’ll be the first to stoke up violent opposition to any change to the status of the border too ..and I mean “violent”. it has always been their fall-back position.At the moment they are back beating that old tribal drum knowing full well that it doesn’t actually matter in real terms, at this moment in time , who is First Minister and it will not matter until the Republic of Ireland , the UK and a majority in these six counties are on the same page and agree that that a New Ireland united would be the best way to proceed economically and socially .
The DUP are under the illusion that they are somehow superior to everyone else and most especially nationalists and republicans .Even when they behave in an asinine manner they still maintain that illusion. This chimera of self-deception is stoked when members are bestowed with such gaudy, illusory and ultimately silly trinkets such as knighthood and the like ,but the reality is that they are being used every bit as much as they themselves also use the unionist under-classes ,beneath their heel.It is all also part of that supremacy agenda and we can all see that it is the very antithisis of an equality agendawhich is anathama .I have no doubt that when the smoke clears, no matter her political cackhandedness, there will be some such trinket waiting for Arlene Foster in the not too distant future.
Your analysis is spot on Paddykool. I bow to your superior writing skills.
Ach James, I can take little credit at all.It just pops into my head, is all, but thanks anyway…
Paddy,all will be revealed on March 2nd. The DUP will come back with the same if not bigger numbers. Turnout will be up a wee bit. With a bit of luck the Mike and Colum show will die a death. But the anti unionist electorate will be watching like Hawks to see how SF react. Grasp the nettle now. No more lying on their backs to get their bellies rubbed. I cannot wait for Wendy Wasp to bite the dust. However, anybody who expects humility and respect from the pioneers will be sadly disappointed.
paddycool, telling it like it is
Leave it to The Unionist Times to suss out the best bet for maintaining the unbroken link of Bronkenshire with the Mainland.
This it does by giving Fine-minded Fintan his head with the wusses of West Britain. And allowing him to sow, as it were, the following seed in the minds of the mindless, i.e, that the SDLP and the UUP are indeed the dead spit of each other.
SDUUP and LISTEN !
The Northern Yune and Southern Yune
Both target SF as a convenient spitoon
To ensure direct rule
Let Egghead O Toole
Contribute the dual,erm, spermatozoon.
This to RJC, excellent comment my friend.