It’s always instructive to see ourselves as others see us, providing of course that we don’t get obsessed with what the neighbours must think of us. So when I noted this morning that The Guardian website has an editorial on our little NE nest.
The editoris contained a number of valid points. “Only a fraction of the attention that is currently focused on Stoke and Copeland [by-elections] is being trained on the election in Northern Ireland. Not much new there, of course. It was ever thus. British opinion rarely pays attention to Northern Ireland except at times of danger.”
Hard to quarrel with that, and a pleasant change from Daily Mail rantings about old British soldiers being dragged unfairly from their retirement homes. And the newspaper is equally on the ball in its description of the RHI Crazy-Gang Caper: “Mrs Foster has apologized for aspects of the policy but in more normal parliaments she would have had to resign.” In fact she wasn’t even asked to resign but she still told everyone to forget it. Abnormal doesn’t begin to cover it.
The editorial goes on to consider the aftermath of the election, and concludes that “Mrs Foster cannot afford to bend on the RHI row now, and Sinn Féin’s new leader Michelle ONeill has to burnish her own implacability credentials…A renewed stand-off seems inevitable, which might in turn trigger renewed direct rule.”
That is indeed a predictable outcome of the election, and most of us would prefer it to more DUP high-handedness in government. But while The Guardian acknowledges that “the majority of Irish people, north and south, favour remaining in the EU”, it goes on to say the DUP will welcome a hard border, since it campaigned for Brexit, and “it may also suit Sinn Féin, which could calculate that a hard border in Ireland, imposed by London would make the unification goal more likely.”
That’s a plausible argument but also considerably off the mark. The DUP did campaign for Brexit but it’s fearful that a hard border would expose, in stark economy terms, how stupid its pro-Brexxit campaigning was. And while a hard border would indeed highlight the roadblock to economic development that the border always was, Sinn Féin is unlikely to welcome its return. If the raison d’etre of your party is Irish reunification, you’re unlikely to welcome a hard border that runs directly contrary to that ambition.
And yet. Traditionally it has been British blundering in Ireland that has ignited Irish nationalism (think Easter 1916, think Bloody Sunday or the Hunger Strikes). It could be that what would be disastrous for the Irish economy north and south would also be disastrous for Britain’s continued political and military presence in Ireland.
There’s also the argument that a hard border will remind people just what a hassle it once was.It’s not easy for a younger generation to imagine life before the EU or even during the Troubles.
Bringing back a hard border also brings back the entire hard idea of a divided Ireland and reminds them in very concrete terms of that fact. They are used to barreling down to Dublin unhindered by any idea of a border.I think that the likes of the DUP would in reality prefer a “Trump Wall” along the border to cut themselves off entirely but that would really encourage physical attacks on such a structure. As things might go , and border posts reappear, they might again be the focus for border attacks by dissidents and a target.Who would be guarding border posts?…..Why ,that would eventually be a spanking new version of the UDR or similar and it would be jobs for the boys all over again. From that point on we might get right back to our usual traditional cycle of violence, sucking in the customs officers,police and so on and so on… just like the good old days before all the early-retired customs officers had to leave and join the prison service.We’d be back to Groundhog Day again.
From Sinn Fein’s point of view it looks as though they are hedging their bets at the moment because the idea or the reality of a hard border could work in their favour either way.It would make concrete everything they are fighting to get rid of and a lot of people would share their annoyance on both sides of the border.
It’s worth remembering too that just as the DUP are anxious to have power back in their hands , many unionists would prefer direct rule from Westminster as a security blanket even though they know that Westminster would rather run away. Many nationalists would accept direct rule with Dublin input for a while rather than having the DUP back anywhere near the levers of power. There’s the notion that the DUP are socially inadequate in the modern world anyway .They have not been able to embrace modernity at all. .In that respect Sinn Fein can afford to wait it out but have two choices anyway. They might prefer a stable society in the north to present as an example to the republic that they have no need to push us away with a long pole….something that would be an asset within an New Ireland rather than an unworkable anarchic lot of ne’er- do -wells “up there”. The other scenario is that they might allow Direct Rule for a period , with hard bordersand all the rest and leave it to Westminster and Dublin to figure out the social and economic mess that will happen.
paddy
Your point about SF and stability is an interesting one.
I have asked before whether they really want to make Northern Ireland work or not.
(If you want to see a shinner squirm just ask them that question.)
If they are part of government in a stable situation then the risk is that some voters will wonder why they should want to change the status quo. The better SF do at running health say, or education the more likely voters will be to want to leave things alone.
On the other hand they want to show the people and parties in the South that they are fit for government so they do need to be able to point to successful management of affairs in the North.
It is a dilemma for them.
Perhaps they would be better served as an opposition party (Look at how well received their stance on RHI was with the party faithful, for example) where they could remain truer to their all Ireland aspirations.
They could hold whatever parties are in government to account whilst putting forward coherent 32 county strategies and campaigning for a referendum.
Surely that would be a better fit for them!
Well gio. If the latest cry from the DUP that Sinn Fein wanted collapse all along, is to be believed we’d need to tunnel into that one just a little bit.I don’t think it stacks up ,myself ,given that Sinn Fein did all the bending in a relationship that was less than loving and the dUP did all the shafting …(if you can momentarily put that image out of your mind for a second!)….Yet Sinn Fein’s motives are not trusted by the DUP? Sinn Fein make no bones as to their eventual journey’s proposed end but it does not follow that they did not want political stabilility on their road to their goal of complete Irish independence. That’s a perfectly valid political position here as it would be in any country.From the start it seems that the DUP didn’t want an agreement of any kind at all and that seems to ring true in recent statements from Poots and McCausland that they didn’t sign that kind of agreement at all or at least did so while holding their noses and pretending they didn’t.
Sinn Fein were the ones who seemingly stuck their necks out to cross the barricades. McGuinness did some things that were unthinkable to their republican base, but both himself and Her Maj did not dissolve into a puddle of bile when they shook hands .There was rapprochment too with Ian Paisley as been pointed out many times and for anyone who saw Paisley in his mad prime, that would have been unthinkable too. That was a step too far too, for many on both sides of the fence.Hardline republicans probably see that kind of thing as eating crow (and I don’t literally mean eating the black-feathered bird, MT} and have been irate about it even on this blog, but progress is made by making friends out of past enemies. That is …if you want progress at all .McGuinness ploughed on for ten years through one swampy scandal after another , trying to save the Executive at every turn; bending to accommodate when he could have been petulant ,himself. You might say he gave it his best shot for ten years and many will see that the DUP eventually made a hames of things all by themselves(….as in making a mess of things, MT and not the two curved wooden or metal pieces that form part of the collar of a dray horse’s harness…) and , of the process at the same time while possibly endangering their precious “Union” more than any other party in Irish or British history. I would say that the UUP would be of that view too.
Gerry Adams may have been more prescient than many realise when he murmured that it will be “equality that will break the bastards”…focus on the word “equality” and not the “bastards”and you’ll get the jist. The bastrds he is talking about are all of those who think “equality” and not “bastards” ,is a dirty word .Ask yourself …was he right or wrong in the respect that Arlene’s disrespect for the very “equality” of her own Joint Office of “FMDFM” was there for all to see when she went out on her unilateral limb ,taking the DUP Speaker into the hole with her….the very thing she had to be sacked for in the end if the very office was to survive as an office of equals and equality.It was n’t only the RHI scandal that brought her down …..it was the politically stupid and unequal way she treated the very office that she shared “equally” with Martin McGuinness.the most curious part of it is that she genuinely seemed unaware of this final, compounding mistake. A mistake like that was a sacking offence ,though.
Martin McGuinness had already showed her the best way to deal with the situation and save the office and she fluffed it totally in front of the world.Now …i ask you , who tried harder to save the Executive? It wasn’t Arlene because she very obviously hadn’t a clue .Everyone else, in every other party knew , though.They all walked out proving that very point.
paddy
Without referring to the DUP I am trying to get at SF’s attitude to running NI.
You touched on it when you mentioned McGuinness and steps he had taken
(I agree he did seem genuine in his efforts).which may not have pleased their support base. A support base I would suggest that are increasingly disillusioned with seeing them administering British rule
Do you not see the difficulty for them as I suggested, that making NI work could leave voters (or undecided ones at least) wondering why they would vote for a UI in the future.?
So perhaps they would feel more comfortable in their own skin if they simply said
‘Look we cannot help run the place because we fundamentally disagree with its existence We will be a party of protest and a party of opposition from now on’
After all 10 years in government have not progressed us very far.
Well …gio it might be an entirely new game now anyway, . The key is in the word “agreement” .Sinn Fein might go into opposition as you say ,or they might refuse entirely to work with th DUP at all.Phrases like “No return to the status quo” have been bandied about too ,so who knows what is in store if parties(and all of them have problems with the DUP) refuse point -blank to have anything to do with them again. They are being seen as the Paranoid Party.Arlene;s still playing bogeyman politics in the playground at the moment and everyone is supposed to believe that she is somehow a capaable politician on the back of that nonsense. no mention at all of the very things that ended her tenure. The RHI scandal and that schoolgirl nonsense at the very end.Does she think the bogeyman sacked her ? We are in for some interesting times ahead alright .There’s little love lost between the UUP, Alliance, the SDLP and the smaller parties and the DUP ….never mind Sinn Fein and the DUP.How will anyone be able to work with them after this stupidity?
Gio, the reason we have moved on so little in ten years is completely down to unionism and british rule.
If we roll back and the maze project had of gone ahead, there would be a huge stadium there, Gerth Brooks would have played a week long set of concerts, the revenue that would have brought in would have paid for the stadium. The peace centre and nock on developments of the areas would have created wealth which would have knocked on and been felt further afield. For example, roads linking the west would have gone ahead.
The path of prosperity has always been thwarted by unionist fears.
While unionists get a bigger turn out in elections and bigotry over unfounded fear such as that still being espoused by Arlene Foster, we will never go anywhere.
But at least be honest and put the finger of blame where it is deserved.
It is not Sinn Fein who is the problem, it is unionism.
You may not like that, but it is the truth.
paddy
I was trying to make a point about SF and their ideological issues in governing Northern Ireland.
I am disappointed you are ignoring that point in favour of ‘whatabout theDUP’
Good stuff.
gio, answer me honestly, do you feel their ideological position negatively impacted on their ability to govern Northern Ireland for all and if so in what way?
Oh ..I see what you mean ,gio.You mean that by doing so Sinn Fein have accepted the very existence of “Northern Ireland ” as a concept …and are prepared to run with it…is that what you are getting at?Well i suppose they decided to do that as part of their overall project, remembering that in their minds it is essentially in the short-term as they develop their all-Ireland project. i suppose they feel that politics is delivering a little more than conflict did and I’m supposing that that is what their opponents are afraid of too.The truth is that is now the only game left in town .
paddy
Yes that is what I am getting at.
I understand they made that decision but my question is whether perhaps they should now reconsider that choice,
As an opposition party they would not have the same inner conflict arising from administering a British budget.
They could hold whichever parties were in charge to account for bad decisions,all the while pointing out their own 32 county proposals.
And as I said, if they make Northern Ireland work as a party of government is there not a likelihood that young undecided voters may decide in favour of the status quo?
“And as I said, if they make Northern Ireland work as a party of government is there not a likelihood that young undecided voters may decide in favour of the status quo?”
And they would be perfectly entitled to.
It is not about gamesman ship and trickery that you unionists cannot see beyond.
What better way to prove partition is a failed policy than to genuinely work to make northern Ireland work for all of our people and make the DUP responsible for this also?
Sooner or later it will become evident that unity is in our best interests and we will unite into an agreed Ireland which our young people will demand.
What better way to achieve this? It is not a matter of one flag going down and another going up.
It has to be in the best interests of all of our people, and that means all 32 counties. We are not two peoples unless you consider unionist/british a separate people.
As you say gio ,there is the chance that many voters might accept the status quo within a properly working brand new state, but what is the likelihood of that when the DUP have already proven that they have not yet imbibed the concept of equality even on a social scale , never mind within the narrow political sphere of Norneverland.What we need is a forward -thinking state and we are unlikely to get that with the DUP’s “vision” as it is presently formed.How do you see them running a government on their own, given their track -record these past ten years? How would that even work when they ‘ve made such a mess already and there are a series of scandals still to be sorted out?You might as well ask why the DUP didn’t set up in Opposition .They didn’t want to share the Joint Office in the first place.Would they not have been wiser not joining with Sinn Fein in the first place if they didn’t want to do the job? They obviously didn’t want t o do it the way it was designed.
Sinn Fein actually appear to be for a real and proper equality agenda which they could push while in government .Their voters are pushing those things forward all the time and mean to hold them to that ,it seems. How would any of that “equality” have really hurt any right -thinking person? Would it be so hard to give your neighbour the exact same rights as yourself regardless of religion, creed or race? The DUP want none of that , so what is their fear all about?
Even now we have Arlene ranting about Gerry Adams ad finitum and the “radical republican agenda” ,as if it was some kind of poison instead of a perfectly viable political objective. That’s her election strategy in total.!!
As for Sinn Fein’s main project, the economic aspect needs to be discussed realistically and totally transparently …debated even , at the highest level to see how it stacks up against what we are currently suffering . How would it be better in a UI? What are the pitfalls? What is there to fear? What might be the problems ? What if it works better than what we have ? If the Executive actually worked would we still be better-off socially and culturally in a self-supporting New Ireland with our own unique federal area , when we already know that we are nothing but an afterthought for Westminster as things stand..The DUP has to understand that practically half of the people here who think about it at all, want this discussed clearly and openly….. but if radical changes such as Brexit , which have greater repercussions here than anywhere else ,are what we can expect when a majority here voted to remain and the DUP ploughed secret money into the UK ,to the leave campaign, then we have to ask ourselves some really hard questions. We are being ignored here and we are the only area that has the Eu at our doorstep across an imaginary line in the road..In the circumstances Arlene’s Fermanagh mafia appear to be busily shooting themselves in the foot on that score.Jim Allister of the TUV can be a funny guy sometimes and it has to be said that from a unionist perspective he talks some semse now and then..What he is saying is that the DUP rant and rave about these green “crocodile” fenians . but then they merrily jump into bed with them to share power with them knowing that the office is a joint office and cannot work without either’s input.Even he thinks the DUP have got their wires crossed….but they’re only doing it to achieve the trappings of power and hold back social progress.Sinn Fein appear to be doing it to bring us in line with the rest of the UK and Ireland. I would say their eventual aim is for a unique Ireland with a friendly neighbour by its side…but not in either’s pocket.
“Sinn Fein appear to be doing it to bring us in line with the rest of the UK and Ireland. I would say their eventual aim is for a unique Ireland with a friendly neighbour by its side…but not in either’s pocket.”
I would agree with that Harry, but it doesnt sit well with me at the moment though I will still support them.
Unionists are just being unionists, the main problem for me is not with Sinn Fein but that the UK are not behaving like a friendly neighbour. Their blatant disregard for nationalist victims of state violence is not going to go away. There cannot be a state amnesty to protect their reputation. If allow them to cover up their actions, what example will this be to resolving conflicts in other parts of the world? We have one of the most successful peace processes ever and should be showing the world what can be achieved. Once we push Britain over the line to come clean through persistent legal pressure then Ireland will become a peace and conflict resolution centre for the world.
Kenny may be rolling over and doing whatever both London or Brussels tell him and keeping more or less out of the issues caused by Brexit, but it is Ireland who will suffer the most.
Whatever about RHI, the return of a hard border is by far the biggest concern to me.
I simply will not accept it and will fight against it if we have to.
No one in Dublin is sufficiently standing up for Irelands concerns at the moment and that has to change. Both on the border issue and on legacy
It is not a dilemma at all except on your own twisted by unionism mind gio.
Sinn Fein are confident that Irish unity is in the best interests of all of our people.
While unionism treats it all like some sort of game, where even discussing unity is seen as defeat, Sinn Fein on the other hand have shown the courage it takes to do what is right and to put faith in the courage of their convictions that partition is not in Irelands interests and by working hard to build the economy and reconciliation that will become clear to all.
Unionism is not confident in the union and instead full of fear. As yoda said, fear leads to the dark side.
Jessica, “…..if the Maze project had have gone ahead ……….
sorry fiosrach
You weren’t a school teacher too by any chance 🙂
Don’t like you slipping into these sloppy English ways,Jessica
only here,lol.people being asked to vote for stalemate,as for border posts,they will be on the eu side imposed by their german paymasters.
But as the Brexiteers want to keep the ‘immigrants’ out of Britain, will her army/customs not need to man their side of the border?
no.any migrants picked up after the main deportations that begin after brexit will just be handed over to the nearest eu country ie the south.probably will be some sort of jungle camp set up on the southern side to hold them unless they straighten up spike island or the like.they will be the free states responsibility under eu laws.nothing to do were us gov.
Billy, at risk of sounding pedantic but, what of those ‘immigrants’ found in Derry or Strabane? What is Donegal south of?
nearest eu country.they wont get travel sick anyway with only up the road to go.
billy, if Ireland is united and we leave the UK and remain in the EU which is what I would like to see.
Would you move to GB to get the protection of these EU hard borders you desire?
you wont need to worry yourself about that situation coming about the eu will be long gone by the time a ui comes about.i thought with a ui came self determination so under that the borders would be protected not left lying open under orders from the souths german masters.
You don’t vote so you wouldn’t have any say in self determination anyway billy.
Plus the BNP don’t stand here as far as I know, I guess the DUP would be closest to your thinking though.
they wont be british elections
Not sure what you mean billy, I thought you were all for british protectionism from the EU invaders.
Billy I had a thought, my wife would say ‘I thought I saw smoke’, which is, if you deport your ‘immigrants’ by which I suppose you mean, in the main here Polish folk, what will happen, given the EU thinks of itself as one nation, to those British folk living within the same EU?
Reports are of a huge increase in applications for our passports from english folk whom have, by parental, or grand parental right, access to Irish citizenship however, what of the others? What, in your scenario, is to happen to the Geordie or Scouser who has only a Brit. passport but lives in Spain, France or Italy?
Mass deportations would have another major consequence, the vacant housing left behind would cause housing crisis for the amateur land lords for a few weeks ’til the, then, mass influx of other ‘immigrants’ notably more African’s, Asians and Middle Eastern persons.
When this happens, and it will, will you be happier to have gotten rid of people whom at least share similar values to you to replace them with those whose persistent demands are for people here to do all their way?
billy will be ok, he has the sofa against the door and a shotgun
The border with Britain isn’t in Ireland sherdy.
They only need to man the ports
It will be the southern forces who will be left to impose the new border. That’s what I have been saying. Britain has taken themselves out of the equation, will Dublin be prepared to repartition Ireland, impose the customs border and do their dirty work for them?
Britain doesn’t have to, it has no need to man any border in Ireland.as it will be going into a trade war with the EU.
We have a spineless Taoiseach who is sleepwalking Ireland into civil war.
I don’t mean that as a threat but as a risk.
Jess:
The border with Britain isn’t in Ireland sherdy.
They only need to man the ports
Maybe all those years I thought I was crossing a border at Killeen, Omeath, Derry/Donegal, Aughnacloy/Monaghan, and even Goraghwood on the train, I was just hallucinating!
No, you just never left Ireland.
To get to Britain, you need to take a boat or a plane.
Jess:
The border with Britain isn’t in Ireland sherdy.
They only need to man the ports
Maybe all those years I thought I was crossing a border at Killeen, Omeath, Derry/Donegal, Aughnacloy/Monaghan, and even Goraghwood on the train – I was just hallucinating!
I lost all respect for the Guardian’s views on Ireland when they appointed Henry McDonald as their Ireland correspondent.
Because he was of the sticky faith, a Bhrian?
The darling phrase which somersaulted out of the Guardian’s leader , Esteeemed Blogmeister, was ‘and Sinn Féin’s new leader Michelle O Neill’s has to burnish her own implacability credentials’.
-Implacability credentials, no less.
No less than the iffy whiff of a Liffeyside leader from the Manchester Guardian’s very own sniffy half- sister-paper, The Unionist Times, could have coined a more daaarlin’ phase, Joxer.
This whiff of similarity does not come totally out of the true blue ether for there is a mentality of the snaking reguradian variety which is trending by the day down here south of the Black Sow’s Dyke, even as the Ending of Enda is getting nigh and nigher by the night.
The prospect of a harder, deeper dyke has really spooked the likes of Uncle Tom McGurk and all the other Cobleys, including the Mamelukes of the Media Lackeys (aka Politicos) , and he has gone out of a long limb and on the hard yards too to call for a return to the UK.
In fairness, going foward, allowances must be made. McGurkey’s game of choice is not of the working class which means that as the British and Oirish Lions,oops, the Lions are due to embark on one of their Antipodean Tours next year, his fears are not those of the hoi polloi boyos.
It is vital, y’see, that we Oirish in the Quadrennial Squad put our Bods on the (gulp) line and stand , erm, shoulder to shoulder with our Mainland Brothers, even as we stand for (gasp) ‘The Lions’Roar’.
Priorities, dear boy.
This is the same Free Southern Stateen, after all, which elected the sainted T.K. Whitaker as The Man of the Century at the turn of the C. This is the same distinguisehd dude who wrote in 1997 to the widow of Sir Cecil Bateman, for many years a contact and friend in the Northen Ireland administration :
-I often look back to those mid-60s days of hope , blighted so soon, alas, by extremists, and I regret that sensible and sensitive public servants like Cecill and myself couldn’t just settle between ourselves how things should be arranged’.
Eh?
Sound familiar?
‘Extemists’ . Dem’s de boys and gals dat do like to be burnishing their ‘ implacability credentials’.
Think: Michelle O Neill.
-‘Just settle between ourselves’.
Sound familiar?
Think Sir Colin and TK, think -yikes !- the civil but hardly servile Sykes-Picot Carve up of the Ottoman Empah after the Great Donkey Derby, 14-18. In a word:
-Syria.
Now, TK Whitaker had many outstanding qualities (for a man who spent most of his working life, inside and sitting down) but, like Uncle Tom Moore, he truly did, alas, ‘love a Lord’. Indubitably, he had a fine mind but it seems, sadly, to have been,erm, defined, by, perhaps, too much proximity to the Earls of the Belted Variety.
Indeed, not at all unlike his namesake Roger, TK went on to make the following tune his theme song:
-I don’t believe in ‘If’ anymore.
In other words, ‘If’ bad but ‘sniffy Liffeyside editorials from The Unionist Times’ good.
In a word:
-Syeire.
PREY for US, on BENDED KNEES
Angel of Man. , our Guardian dear
The Queen’s rule adheres to fear
Every day be
At our side, E.
To rule ‘n guide us thro’ Brexit Year.
A hard border post brexit with an economic downturn in the north makes for good conditions in getting a border poll relatively soon. The Guardian may not be too far away in their analysis- the DUP have more to fear from a hard border than SF.
maybe when the people see the benefits of a hard border and brexit,plus the state the south is going to be left in with open entry points they wont want to join up is another way to look at it.
What are the benefits of a hard border in Ireland ?
Fuel smuggling, TV,PC, alcohol etc. a lot of people stand to make a lot of money.
have a look on utube at any british town or city thats been over run and get back to me.is this what you want for ireland.
Eh? We’ve been overrun by genocidal Brits for centuries and you still won’t feck off home!
Hypocrisy how are ye!
so you want germany in on the action as well.ffs.
They couldn’t be any worse than the Brits. In fact I KNOW they are infinitely better, let me count the number of genocides committed by the British on the Irish against the number of genocides committed by the Germans against the Irish.
Hmmmm, let me see…..
But I do love how you complain about being swamped by foreigners when yer a foreigner swamping the Irish with yer fellow Brits. Why don’t you go home?
Billy, you put too much faith in Youtube. Seriously, learn the difference in someone putting their opinion across and real evidence.
I think you’ve been watching too many David Irvine videos.
utubes only an example for the likes of you on here who have never left ireland.once you have seen first hand the damage uncontrolled immigration does to a country you will know the difference.in the north we arnt to bad yet and thanks to brexit we wont be long sorting the solution.who will want to join the south in 30 0r 40yrs time with town and cities overrun with all sorts of ghettos and no go areas.the rise of a far right party or riots is the way the south is heading like the rest of europe once the rot sets in.enoch powell wasnt heeded in the sixties and look what happened,do you want the same for ireland.(whos david irvine).
Ireland has been full of thieving immigrants for 400 years, billy.
ano all about it.but some on here think its a good idea to swap the brits for the germans.what about self determination.is that forgot about now.
‘Sinn Féin is unlikely to welcome its return. If the raison d’etre of your party is Irish reunification, you’re unlikely to welcome a hard border that runs directly contrary to that ambition.’
I have before mentioned my misunderstanding of the Sinn Féin position vis. the EU.
I voter, for the first time in a brit. election, to leave the EU, because, as once Sinn Féin policy dictated, I am opposed to federalism, but where now is the Sinn Féin position on this, are they happy, as Billy alludes above, to have us all controlled by the Germans or, should they not prefer to live by their founding principles of independence, indeed, of serving neither king nor kaiser.
This is what makes the DUP position vis. Brexit appealing, from the economic stand point, the economy of the free part of our country (not so free since Fianna Fáil sold us to the EU troika and ignored the democratically expressed will of the rest of our nation) will, post Nov. 8th last, will soon, and we’re seeing it in Kildare already, see jobs head west again, the EU will not replace these and Germany/French axis will continue to suck resources to themselves while the little states will have to feed them, ask the Italians, I recently did, no love of the EU there.
So long as Sinn Féin play two sides of the same phinigin, they risk losing any chance we have of building an economy, outside europe where our children and grand-children might have an opportunity for employment other than shelf stacking, again, if no income, no shelves to stack, if however Sinn Fein, and other Irish political parties think through where global voting intentions appear to be going, the sooner we can see where we should go.
Der Nederlands on March 16th will be a clear indication of where Ireland should align, and all our political parties.
The EU will break apart in its own time.
Ireland needs to move the shackles of Britain first, then deal with the EU noose Fianna Fail and Fine Gael have landed us with Europe.
With unification, I would be totally confident Ireland could burn the bonds and let the EU go to hell and still make a successful economy as a sovereign nation, but there is no confidence among the establishment and the media would prevent it as they did with Scottish independence by frightening the life out of the people. The modern world is led by the media.
I had considered it the other way around. But Britain honestly cannot be trusted. The veto on truth and comments by brokenshire on the anniversary of bloody Sunday should not be ignored Mark.
The EU may hold us back to level the playing field with other EU countries, but did Ireland not benefit the same way?
Unfortunately we are not a courageous nation such as Iceland, not any more anyway
Agree entirely with your last point, once we had people like Farrell, James Connolly, Pearse, Sands, Hughes Lynagh, McKearney et. al., unfortunately our political class mentions them only at election time and forgets the sacrifice they made to put them in power.
I don’t trust Britain however, I trust the neo con agenda of Brussels substantially less, as before, a simple reading of the Treaty of Lisbon shows the game the Franco-Hun alliance there are up to, I’d prefer my kid’s and nephews/nieces, had a chance to live, not die in the Balkans finishing the Europeans war.
I noticed on the BBC at the weekend a number of folk from round Killeen dressed up as customs officers and halted traffic in attempt to show what the old ‘border’ was like, in the first instance, unlawful detention, or stopping one going about their lawful business, is an offence and the Gardaí or police service should investigate this but as above, a reintroduction of such ‘border’ will make a lot of persons, especially in that area, much wealthier with return of wholesale smuggling, this is what the Free State government is most concerned of, the loss of income will toughen them up, should never have signed the treaty.
The level of hatred and abuse on this site has reached new depths.
This from people who presumably consider themselves republicans.
Yet the unionist commenters on the whole refrain from sinking to that level.
It makes me sad.
gio,
What you are getting is a very mild mirroring of how Unionism behaves towards Nationalism.
The strand of Unionism that insists it is British. Denies any Irish heritage. Opposes my language, my culture, the re-unification of my country. The strand of Unionism of not-an-inch and bitter hatred towards me and my people. Them? They are welcome to shag off to England.
The other strand that is willing to roll up its sleeves and participate in making a re-united Ireland the best it can be for all her children. Them? They are my brothers in humanity. To them I extend the open hand of friendship.
Once May triggers A50 NI has 4 to 5 years before it is gone. Re-unification is no longer a distant dream but an immediate reality. What you are witnessing is the awakening of the Nationalist people because our moment of victory is at hand.
Unionism will have to make a decision and the Arlene Foster bitter hatred of all things Irish Unionism will be treated with the contempt it deserves from here on out. McGuinness gave that shower 10 years and we see how it worked out.
The fallout from the DUP saying they never signed up for the GFA nor the St Andrews agreements? That has really riled Nationalism. Thanks for that!
“The other strand that is willing to roll up its sleeves and participate in making a re-united Ireland the best it can be for all her children. ”
I would love to hear more about what you feel that would look like, especially if you are making yourself an enemy of mine if it looks more like how I would like it to be.
What type of socialist state would you like it to be?
Do you mean a socialist democracy which it is already even though it has a right wing government with a capitalist economy?
Or are you expecting Ireland to become a soviet style socialist republic?
Are you familiar with Marx’s theory of wage theft?
Is it something along the lines of thinking that an employer is someone who exploits workers by keeping the profits from their work for themselves.
So you think Ireland will reunite into a Marxist socialist republic then?
Is that what you are saying?
That would be a no then. OK.
Let me try a different approach. Climate change threatens to collapse our civilisation if not push us to extinction. The energy expenditure of oil & steel capitalism drives it.
So which is it? Capitalism or your children’s future?
Perhaps you could enlighten us all gendjinn.
What is the connection between Marxist theory on wage theft and your vision of a reunited Ireland?
So in your mind, capitalism is driving the energy expenditure of oil & steel and responsible for climate change which threatens to collapse our civilisation if not push us to extinction.
Ireland is a small island that could be 100% self sufficient using renewable energy within 5 years with the proper investment which would allow businesses to operate without causing harm to the planet.
I fail to see how whether profits from businesses go to private owners after paying tax or all profit go into the state coffers is going to make any difference to climate change. Other than the drastic drop in the number of businesses it would result in, which in turn would be higher unemployment and less money within the state to invest in social services.
You do understand that capitalism is not a fixed ideology, or even an ideology at all.
Allowing private citizens to own their own businesses rather than the state owning everything is not causing climate change.
We are way behind on EU targets and something is blocking this investment which is very frustrating for me.
But if I said to you that Irelands biggest carbon footprint was greenhouse gas emissions from the agriculture sector and caused by cows.
http://www.epa.ie/climate/communicatingclimatescience/whatisclimatechange/whatareirelandsgreenhousegasemissionslike/
In your united Ireland where the state confiscates the land and controls all of the farms, will there be a cow cull to prevent their emissions from threatening our children’s future?
Jessica,
in this thread you have not only demonstrated your ignorance of some relevant areas AND a refusal to even go educate yourself on any of the areas I raised. Which in these days of search engines and wiki is a trivial task. But you couldn’t even be bothered to do that much.
Far too eager to blast your wall of text fueled by anger.
And this is why I am your most implacable enemy. And this is why YOU are the problem with all forms of nationalism.
You are wrong. I don’t need you to believe me. I just need to defeat you. And we will. Your use ends upon re-unification, do not forget that.
Defeat me at what?
I don’t believe you have the first idea what you are talking about gendjinn.
“I just need to defeat you. And we will. ”
Who is this ‘we’ you keep referring to that are my implacable enemies?
I am very curious and eager to know you all better.
gendjinn
No need to thank me, I am not a unionist.
Anger at the failings of political Unionism is no excuse for labelling an entire community ‘thieving immigrants’ or for telling people to go home or calling people twisted bigots.
Or maybe I am wrong and all that is fine.?
But that is not what is happening. Those anti-Irish bigots in Unionism, those that claim to solely British and oppose everything Irish. Them? They are welcome to shag off back to the Britain they claim is the birthplace and home. Because they ARE bigots.
Those that aren’t, aren’t and don’t have to.
See how we differentiate between the two different strands within Unionism? It ain’t tarring the whole community, just that part of the community that behaves that way.
gendjinn
Who within unionism has claimed Britain (I am assuming you discount the occupied six) as their birthplace ?
Of course there are bigots in unionism,and in nationalism too,but lazy generalizations do not get us very far. Be specific!
Show me who you vote for and I’ll tell you what you are?