Heather Humphries TD Minister for Something or Other in the Free State/Republic was asked about the idea of Fine Gael joining Sinn Fein in government in Dublin after the next election. ‘No’ she replied categorically, “Definitely not! That would not work. They are like oil and wather”. She’s right there. I always knew FG were watery but I have never heard it said so clearly by one of their own.
What about Fianna Fail? Would that also be an oil and water mix? According to Michael Martin who seems to detest SF more than anybody else-even the DUP- they could not do business. ‘There will be no coalition with SF,’ he says. But if, say on a good election day, FF get 60 seats where is Mr Martin going to get the other 20 plus needed to form a stable government?
We all know that oil and water don’t mix. What about unionism and republicanism? Would they ever mix? Well we thought it impossible until Rev Ian and Martin became friends and made the assembly work. They seemed to mix quite well. Their friendship and respect grew to the amazement of the whole world. And then Peter and Martin worked together. Then along came Arlene and there was to be no more mixing. But back to Heather and the impossibility of Oil and Water mixing.
We are talking here about people not about the elements. Given the long history of anti-Catholic bigotry and discrimination here is it not necessary for the sake of the common good that people of different political views mix and work together however unpalatable it may appear? The Good Friday Agreement is based on the premise that sharing power is the only way forward until there is constitutional change here. When that happens there will be new political alliances.
It seems to me that it comes down to leadership. Some have got those skills and some just have not. Leadership is about openness and the ability to see the big picture -to see the common good and to make positive political judgments and to share in the decision making and working for the good of all. So it is not about oil and water mixing. It’s about human beings finding a way to work together with respect for one another and for difference and making the common good their primary concern. Good leadership is what is required now more than ever in the both parts of Ireland.
“So it is not about oil and water mixing. It’s about human beings finding a way to work together with respect for one another and for difference and making the common good their primary concern. Good leadership is what is required now more than ever in the both parts of Ireland.”
Was the Provo movement displaying good leadership, according to your definition, when it slaughtered 2000 people over a 27-year period? Was that finding a way for human beings to work together with respect for one another and for difference?
Did the Enniskillen bomb, that you consciously chose not to condemn, represent a respect for difference? Did it encourage humans to work together?
Did ever cross your mind that the reason most people don’t want to work with the Provisional movement as currently constituted is because of its abhorrent record of crime and evil?
MT – The next time you use ‘Provisional’ in place of ‘republican’ or ‘Sinn Féin’, your comment will be taken down. I’ve mentioned this a number of times. Sin é.
Maybe he’s genuinely trying to differentiate between Official Sinn Féin or Republican Sinn Féin,Jude. Or maybe not. Anyway, your blog.
Interesting post Fr Joe, but I am of the opinion that trying to reach an accommodation with some members of the unionist community is not possible. There are those of the small ‘u’ unionist community, those who might attend a rugby match in Dublin for instance, who might be prepared, if the circumstances were right, to embrace Irish unity.
On the other hand there are the large ‘U’ unionist community who will never be convinced that a united Ireland is by far the best way forward for all who inhabit this island.
I believe that trying to reason with those of the large ‘U’ persuasion is a total waste of time and energy. They should be left to their own devices, let them stew in their own juice so to speak and over the course of a short space of time demographics will solve the problem.
For those of the large ‘U’ persuasion, all that can be said is to take your heads out of the sand. The Orange state is gone forever, the days of unionist domination in a sectarian, gerrymandered cess-pit in north-eastern Ireland are finished, so it is time to wake up and come and live in the real world with your fellow Irishmen and women.
I am of the opinion that trying to reach an accommodation with some members of the nationalist community is not possible. There are those of the small ‘n’ natonalist community, those who might attend a football match in Belfast for instance, who might be prepared, if the circumstances were right, to embrace theUK.
On the other hand there are the large ‘N’ nationalist community who will never be convinced that the UK is by far the best way forward for all who inhabit Northern Ireland.
I believe that trying to reason with those of the large ‘N’ persuasion is a total waste of time and energy. They should be left to their own devices, let them stew in their own juice so to speak and over the course of a short space of time common sense will solve the problem.
For those of the large ‘N’ persuasion, all that can be said is to take your heads out of the sand. The Green state is gone forever, the days of nationalist domination in a sectarian, gerrymandered cess-pit in southern Ireland are finished, so it is time to wake up and come and live in the real world with your fellow Irishmen and women in Northern Ireland .
Stolen from the Guardian, but worth posting here…
Some statistics to show the economic chasm that has opened up between the Republic and Northern Ireland:
– GDP per capita in the ROI is more than twice that of NI.
– GDP growth for 2016 was 4.5% in the ROI, and just 1.2% in NI.
– Average wage in the ROI is €38k, almost 50% higher than in NI.
– The industrial production in the ROI is now 10 times that of NI (amazing when you think of how Protestants cling to their industrial heritage, and how the ROI was traditionally agricultural)
– And, goods exports from the ROI were worth 15 times as much as exports from NI.
Yet i still meet Unionists from NI who think their interests are best served being part of the UK. They actually think they can argue it logically
And still they can’t manage to set up a national health service.
No doubt taxation isn’t taken into account in those figures.
Alternatively, you could just open your eyes MT and take a walk through Belfast, then take a walk through Dublin. Take a walk around Armagh, then take one around Kilkenny. Visit Derry, then visit Cork.
Also, crowing about the NHS seems like an enormous act of hubris when one looks at the current state of it and its likely future.
Though I guess there are none so blind as those who refuse to see. Has anybody ever arrived at a Unionist position without having been born into one?
Some people seem incapable of joined up thinking…when anyone states what are the blatantly obvious flaws and deficiencies, in Unionism its back to the bad auld “provos”. The first bombs , the first murders of both soldier and policeman happened before the “provos” were even a thought….Bombay St ,Cupar St , and Kashmir Rd did not burn themselves down ! MT , I could remind you of the many genocidal rampages, the ethnic cleansings , the deliberate famines , the slavery , the transportations etc etc that our inglorious neighbour foisted on us and you would wish us to be grateful and realize how lucky we’ve been. Death and destruction was first thrust upon us in 1169 and has continued ever since ! The UVF first introduced the gun into Irish politics in 1913/14 and have remained armed ever since. For the indigenous population residing here from 1921 onwards , it was no Tír na nÓg with it’s sectarianism , apartheid system , racism , gerrymandering etc etc….. so if you still think we would welcome a return to La La land , we’ll pass ….and we’ll take our country with us !
“Some people seem incapable of joined up thinking…when anyone states what are the blatantly obvious flaws and deficiencies, in Unionism its back to the bad auld “provos”. The first bombs , the first murders of both soldier and policeman happened before the “provos” were even a thought….Bombay St ,Cupar St , and Kashmir Rd did not burn themselves down ! MT , I could remind you of the many genocidal rampages, the ethnic cleansings , the deliberate famines , the slavery , the transportations etc etc that our inglorious neighbour foisted on us and you would wish us to be grateful and realize how lucky we’ve been. Death and destruction was first thrust upon us in 1169 and has continued ever since ! The UVF first introduced the gun into Irish politics in 1913/14 and have remained armed ever since. For the indigenous population residing here from 1921 onwards , it was no Tír na nÓg with it’s sectarianism , apartheid system , racism , gerrymandering etc etc….. so if you still think we would welcome a return to La La land , we’ll pass ….and we’ll take our country with us !”
I’m afraid that bad things that happened decades and centuries ago doesn’t excuse murdering and terrorising people.
I was in Dublin recently. And apart from the extortionate prices it didn’t seem much different from Belfast. Some.of the estates were a bit grim but we have grim estates here too.
Incidentally, when Southern Ireland was way behind us economically did you oppose a ‘united Ireland’? Or were economic arguments conveniently not important then?
As a committed Republican I think MT has a point when he points to the poor social infrastructure south and West of the border. A close relative who has a chronic illness pays a three figure sum for his medication every month. Parents have to fork out considerable sums annually or school books. I was appalled to hear on ‘Liveline’ some years back how a small farmer was billed over €2000 when a neighbour called out the fire brigade on his behalf -quite unnecessarily as it happened. Car prices and car tax are much higher than in the north or Britain. Legal aid is about the same as in the north even the population is more than double.. (On the other hand dole and children’should allowances are more generous in the south and there are no fees for third level education) ow did this situation comé about? I think you can trace it back to a decision by a FF administration in the 1970’s to abolish household rates. It was a cynical pre-election ploy designed solely for short-term electoral gain.How many residences in the 26 counties? At a very conservative estimate, probably half a million. If we tale an average in today’s money of one thousand euro per dwelling this is a loss to the exchequer of three to four Billion euros per annum. Over 40 years this would amount to 150 billion or thereabouts which, had it been collected, would have in great measure bridged the gap between northern and southern social support systems. But as the old saying goes “How’ll yeh get the shit back into the horse?”. Considering the uproar down south over a proposal to charge a very modest sum for water what would the reaction be were the government to suggest chargingredients a thousand or two thousand euros to young couples struggling to pay mortgages and for child caré? It goes back to the point I have made previously on this blog that no-one has prepared and costed a programme preparing for Irish Unity. Not SF, not the dissidents, certainly not the SDLP or the southern government. Who will fill the gap? And how will.you persuade thoughtful Unionists like MT that their future ought lie with their fellow Irish in a secular progressive state rather than an aggressive and arrogant monarchical time-warp.
Interesting post, Brian.
I wonder has any economist costed the value of social and other public services we receive here but aren’t available in the South.
Thoughtful unionist? MT?……………HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA HA
Some people seem incapable of joined up thinking….MT, the “provos” WERE decades ago ….. it’s only people of your ilk that wish , for some nefarious reason , to resurrect them ! A United Ireland will not happen overnight…It will be a new and agreed Ireland with broad consensus on what way our future will take us. It would be puerile and extremely immature to imagine that the dichotomy that exists now would still survive after re-unification. Essential services ( health , education etc ) are duplicated at the moment and are a foolish and mindless waste of resources on a small island…..re-unification means new opportunities to get things right….new political alliances would be formed and with a clean slate and a new beginning , I foresee the emergence of a more youthful body politic with all the idealism and utopianism they naturally enthuse !
”I wonder has any economist costed the value of social and other public services we receive here but aren’t available in the South”.
That’s a great suggestion MT. Any chance you might be able to enlighten us as to what public services you are referring to. I am no expert, but in my opinion public services in the south are far superior to those provided by the British to the people of the north east.
“Some people seem incapable of joined up thinking….MT, the “provos” WERE decades ago ….. it’s only people of your ilk that wish , for some nefarious reason , to resurrect them !”
If you’re referring to the PIRA I don’t want to resurrect them.
“A United Ireland will not happen overnight…It will be a new and agreed Ireland with broad consensus on what way our future will take us. It would be puerile and extremely immature to imagine that the dichotomy that exists now would still survive after re-unification. Essential services ( health , education etc ) are duplicated at the moment and are a foolish and mindless waste of resources on a small island…..re-unification means new opportunities to get things right….new political alliances would be formed and with a clean slate and a new beginning , I foresee the emergence of a more youthful body politic with all the idealism and utopianism they naturally enthuse !”
All sounds rather utopian..Like.something Trump, Brexiteers would come up with: promise the world in the knowledge that it won’t matter if it happens because the Rubicon will have been crossed.
“That’s a great suggestion MT. Any chance you might be able to enlighten us as to what public services you are referring to. I am no expert, but in my opinion public services in the south are far superior to those provided by the British to the people of the north east.”
Obviously I’m referring to those services provided free in NI that are paid for in the South.
Sorry MT your reply does not cut any ice. In your previous post you reffered to services not available in the south, but available in the north. I rate your reply as Must Do Better.
“Sorry MT your reply does not cut any ice. In your previous post you reffered to services not available in the south, but available in the north. I rate your reply as Must Do Better.”
I clarified what I meant. I’m not aware of any services available in one but not the other.
Thanks for clarifying that MT. I am sure you will agree that, as fellow Irishmen and women, we should all sing from the one hymn sheet.
Gearóid you may not regarding do MT as a thoughtful unionist. But how thought ful is a guffaw?
I’ve just noticed that Jude has taken down my.post in which I asked why he was censoring the word ‘Provisional’.
Anyone any ideas what’s going on with this?
Ah c’mon now? This has got to be performance art, right?
I do not think MT is a Unionist. I think he is a …. nationalist, There are many of them around. Eventually they will be flushed out.