I was recently asked by someone on this blog site if I even understood what Sinn Fein stands for.
As usual, that gets me thinking and I would have to say no, I possibly don’t.
I had a look at their website and I would like to discuss a few areas of relevance to our previous discussion which was on the economy.
“1 Sinn Féin is a 32-County party striving for an end to partition on the island of Ireland and the establishment of a democratic socialist republic. ”
“90 years after partition, as communities divided by the border become increasingly reintegrated, there is a growing pull towards reunification. As old allegiances change and people from loyalist backgrounds consider voting for a republican party because it best represents their social and economic interests, the potential for dialogue with those from the unionist community about their place in a united Ireland becomes possible.”
I get the need for and fully support the ending of partition, I am a democrat and I support reaching out to people from loyalist backgrounds who I find more reasonable than those from middle class unionist or even Catholic/nationalist backgrounds. I believe that the first bonds of unity will be when republicans can help loyalists to build 11th night bonfires and even attend them together.
I guess the obvious elephant in the room is the use of the word socialist.
I am not a socialist but I would support a social democracy and stronger social values such as better pay and conditions for workers.
I would be against state interference in business or thwarting capitalism or the opportunities it offers and therefore strongly against Marxism
Reading on:
“Key Sinn Féin policies to bring about our goal of a united Ireland
- A referendum on Irish unity. To be held simultaneously, North and South.
- Northern representation in the Dáil. The existing 18 Westminster MPs to automatically be accorded membership of the Dáil, with consultative and speaking rights.
- Voting rights in presidential elections to be extended to citizens in the Six Counties.
- The integration of public services and infrastructure on an all-Ireland basis, enabling people to access services such as health and education nearest to them, regardless of which side of the border they are on.
- Negotiate the transfer of fiscal powers from Westminster to the north.
- Coordinate economic planning on an all-Ireland basis. Harmonise taxation policy north and south.”
I fully support all of that list and find it very appealing.
“2. Economy”
The following are the key Sinn Féin economic policies
Economies should be ran counter-cyclical. Governments’ should save in the good times (booms) so they can spend in the bad (recessions). We oppose moves from Europe to constitutionally limit national budgets, as this is a fiscal determinant that should be available to sovereign decision-makers.”
This makes sense to me, when FDI is booming in then put something in reserve. Fianna Fail failed to save a penny throughout the boom and when the property bubble burst were in a weaker place than most nations.
The 3% limit on borrowing within the EU will make it impossible for reunification to invest in economic growth needed to offset the losses from trade with GB.
Ireland could easily replace this and grow without any trade with GB, but only by investing in new industry such as renewables which would be a domestic enterprise we could then export. I would not obstruct FDI and multi nationals from coming in and developing infrastructure and jobs as a gateway to Europe, in fact we should encourage it and I would even keep the low corporation tax rate and offer incentives such as free land rates for periods based on inward investment. That way we don’t throw money at them first to get a return, they invest first and reap rewards for the time they remain.
And they can take it or leave it. Ireland has a highly skilled and competent workforce, with good communication skills and we should be more confident in our value than to give away foolish sweetheart deals and squander billions of tax revenue.
In fact, the 13 billion from Apple needs to be collected in full.
“The tax and social welfare systems should be redistributive. Income taxes should be fair and progressive. Governments should not rely on indirect flat taxes like consumption taxes. Welfare should be protected government spending and should be based on achieving a decent living standard for recipients while offering support to assist people re-entering the workforce.”
Again, fully ok with that.
“The state should provide essential services to the economy (nationalised/state services). There should be a state bank, a state insurance company, state fuel company, state IT company (telephone/broadband etc), state health system, state transport and state schools & universities. Sinn Féin does support private enterprise as being essential to an economy, but we also recognise the hugely important part the state has to play in economic success. ”
I support the idea of a state bank much like the bank of England which controls inflation and helps balance the economy.
As for the others, I am against selling off resources to foreign companies and I am against huge profits made in Ireland from leaving Ireland
I support the Nordic model where the state may own hospitals, transport etc… but can choose to outsource to private companies the day to day management of them.
This controls the profits keeping them within the state while ensuring people get paid well and that the business is run efficiently which is not the case in public sector employment where people see sick days as holiday entitlements.
“We caution against a reliance on foreign direct investment over the growth of indigenous (home-grown) industry. We’re not an ‘isolationist’ party. We recognise the importance of trade and investment. However we do dispute the reliance of the 26-County economy in particular on foreign direct investment to create jobs. The indigenous sector has at times seen its support sacrificed to appease multinational companies based here. We want to redress this imbalance.”
I agree completely, I often rant about multi nationals being treated better than domestic companies.
I would go further and say our reliance on trade with GB is also too high and we should be encouraged to both buy and sell to other markets.
“We support the protection of wages and income. We do not believe in a race-to-the-bottom to improve Ireland’s ‘competitiveness’. We have strong policies on workers’ rights. Workers are the heart of an economy and should be treated as such, not just as a means to a profit. We believe in absolute entitlement to join a trade union and collectively bargain. Sinn Féin policy on workers’ rights is based on the republican concept of equality as outlined in the 1916 Proclamation and the Democratic Programme.”
Workers are very much the heart of our economy and I support increasing the standards for working people. Including better health care for working people above those who refuse to work. In my eyes trade unions should not be necessary but as with all businesses free to operate if there is demand.
When government is doing good, unions should not be needed and struggling. If unions are doing well, then more than likely government is failing its workers but there should be an entitlement as means of protection.
“We support the establishment of a ‘high-pay’ commission, which would ensure the gap between the highest and lower earners in a society did not exceed a specific rate. ”
I have no problem with this. In fact I think the results of globalisation in forcing higher profits into fewer bank accounts is wrong and the very wealthy should certainly pay more.
So I have gone through the Sinn Fein website and found nothing I would be opposed to, and indeed I support pretty much all of it.
I don’t read manifestos, I don’t even read instruction manuals and tend to just jump in.
However, Donal Lavery seems to believe I am misplacing my trust in Sinn Fein and that my views are not welcome.
Some of the comments Donal made which I disagree with completely were that government ministers should receive the average industrial wage.
This is total infringement on opportunity, it goes against capitalism and will have grave repercussions, not least our young people leaving these shores to pursue better pay and conditions for the same jobs elsewhere.
There is no appetite in Ireland for capping management wages to that of the average industrial wage and indeed that makes about as much sense as the nationalisation of Moy Park suggestion did.
And on that, Donal has also suggested that corporate businesses might be nationalised and that this is also part of Sinn Fein policy.
Perhaps Sinn Fein have joined forces with Eamon McCann and are considering a buyout of Moy Park after all.
When Bernie Sanders spoke at the Georgetown University, he said clearly that he is NOT in favour of “workers owning the means of production,” which is one of the most important aspects of Marxism. Marxism would replace the corporate ownership of business and would hand the companies to the workers to manage and control. This eliminates the capitalist structure, something democratic socialism does not do.
If only Donal could give the same clarity, perhaps I would be less confused over whether to support Sinn Fein or not.
My heart and head say yes, but Donal keeps saying no.
Is anyone else as confused as I am?
I would be interested to hear what others feel that Sinn Fein stands for to see if I am alone in my misunderstanding of what is it they actually stand for.
Even better if someone from Sinn Fein could come on and explain directly if only to alleviate the concerns Donal has instilled in me.
References
http://www.sinnfein.ie/what-sinn-fein-stands-for
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dan-arel/5-ways-democratic-sociali_b_8876476.html
Might it be that capitalism isn’t/hasn’t been as successful as you think? For example https://www.pastemagazine.com/articles/2017/03/earthrx-the-irish-potato-famine-was-caused-by-capi.html Just a thought.
To the capitalist it is very much succeeding. Remember individualism,egotism and greed are what makes a capitalist. Survival of the fittest and smartest and all that baloney is their mantra. And before anyone claims socialist or socialist friendly countries ‘have proven to be failures’ etc they would need to pay attention as to why they failed. Me thinks you will find that capitalists countries made it their business in ensuring they failed. Be it embargoes,boycotts,assassinations,wars and a sprinkle of help from Christianity, the capitalists could and would never allow such an ideology to succeed.
“Work will set you free” hmmmmmm
Hi Michael,
Thanks for the link
I am starting to think that capitalism is to nationalism what gerry adams is to unionism.
Capitalism has been extremely successful in creating wealth, the problem is that the wealth has been allowed to stay in the pockets of the few at the expense of the many.
The problem is not so much capitalists being capitalists, but state corruption allowing it to happen.
Why are multi nationals such as Apple allowed to keep 13 billion of Irish tax payers money?
Why was Ireland forced to bail out banks when countries such as Iceland had the courage to say no?
How in a housing crisis with more people homeless than ever before, is rent which is already overpriced allowed to grow by 12% over the next 3 years?
Lets say capitalists are the crooks as in a way they are.
The self employed are capitalists, small business owners are capitalists, but I hope you will agree that we are not the problem.
Landlords are also capitalists, and these for me exemplify the worst excesses of capitalist greed.
I am sure there are decent landlords, but most couldn’t give a toss what conditions their properties are in so long as they are making lots of money.
Money for old rope as they say.
This could easily be addressed by taxing multiple property owners heavily, legislating hard on the conditions that rental properties must meet to be rented out, and heavy taxes on empty properties which are simply unjustifiable when so many kids are sleeping in hotels.
Why is this not happening you ask?
How many people who sit on the benches of the Dail or other parliaments are also landlords and you will see the problem?
Governments and therefore states are corrupted by the worst manifestation of capitalist greed there is.
So why the bail out and taking on such a huge debt for such a small island?
How many TDs have employment history and connections with the IMF?
The problem is perhaps not so much capitalism but corruption and selfish greed.
I don’t think you need to worry,Jessica, as the Marxists in Sinn Féin are thin on the ground.
I am very glad to hear that fiosrach
I;m sure Jessica, like myself, you have observed the convolutions of ‘socialist’ Ireland policy which has consumed Sinn Féin over the past decade, supporting PFI in delivery of road building and health services.
At one time paying their water charges in the greater part of Ireland thus providing greater support for anti-water charge parties or individuals, i.e. socialists.
This brings into the equation the realism of Sinn Féin, and their one time cutting edge, Oglaigh na hÉireann. Outside of urban areas the ‘socialist’ aspect of Sinn Féin policy has damm all appeal, try telling my Daddí, who paid the last payment to the absentee family’s for the land they stole that he must give it up to become part of a commune, I suspect he would more than laugh at the representative who told him that, and he would not be alone amongst Irish farmer’s.
In essence, in rural Ireland, Sinn Féin never spouted socialism, ask a great number of their Deputies if their families are socialist or agree with socialism, certainly, equality but not some silly Jewish idea which is the jump lead to communism, Vladimir Illich described communism as socialism with electrification so.
I doubt very much that conservative Ireland, still riven with abject dishonesty, could cope with socialism or any variation on pure capitalism, regardless of beneficiaries.
Exactly why middle of the road policies and removing the corruption that plagues us is exactly what I believe a vast majority of this island would support.
I would be very much against water charges though.
I would have meters not in homes but in areas where excessive use incurs penalties to all homes in that area, with advance notifications so these areas can police excessive wastage themselves.
It is either something like that or we leave the EU.
were you not saying you joined up.and out on the doorsteps canvassing.did you not ask these questions beforehand.
Whom?
Jessica,
Clearly you are an individual with too much time on your hands to write an article about this, the same comments where you conceded that I was far more informed economically and in terms of republicanism than you are, while also admitting you have never even read a Sinn Fein manifesto. People don’t take your views or writing style very seriously and I don’t think anyone is going to rush to change their economic policies to suit someone as obscure as you. What you write is actually based on your uninformed gut inclinations, anti-fact day dreams and as opposed to research or facts you rely on Wikipedia as a dictionary for any concepts I mention that you don’t understand because in reality you are economically illiterate. For you to come on here and suggest that republicans should abandon the class element of centuries of struggle in Ireland to please a small number of apolitical individuals like you is really quite farcical.
I find it very hard to believe you even own a business given your lack of knowledge on these matters – you have said that you oppose the state intervening in the economy – so I take it you also want to private the NHS? You want to eliminate the minimum wage? You want to destroy the motorways? You want to eradicate pensions? You think the public sector workers should be sacked? You want people to police themselves?
You don’t have the faintest idea about social democracy or the Nordic model of capitalism – Harold Wilson’s government was social democratic and Nordic and it nationalised a number of industries and regulated the economy enormously. Likewise with the social democrats in France. How do you think the NHS came about? Who built our infrastructure? Who started the open university?
You say your centre-left but in reality you’re explicitly right wing on economic matters and to follow your ideas would be political suicide. Good luck gaining any followers and please do not bring my name into an article again.
I don’t expect anyone to take my writing seriously Donal, only to have the courtesy of engaging in conversation on topics which should be important to us all.
I am not trying to steal some mantle from you as the guru of judes site.
Uniting this country and ending british rule is very important to me, I think I am entitled to my own points of view on any aspect of that whether it meets your approval or not.
We are moving beyond the tribal bullshit and are entering a phase where how we pay for unity will soon be on the agenda.
Your problem is you don’t listen.
I most certainly do not oppose the state intervening in the economy, I believe the state should manage and to a degree control the economy, just not become an employer. But you have never moved beyond ridiculing my ignorance long enough to hear anything.
As for privatising the NHS.
I think health cannot be based on a for profit basis, at the same time all public sector employment led operations are horribly inefficient and not sufficient value for money. I like the example in Denmark where hospitals are state owned but departments are outsourced to the private sector.
That way it is still free at the point of delivery but is also more efficient, offers a better service delivery and costs less to run.
I have never mentioned the minimum wage so I don’t know where you got that from.
As for destroying the motorways, why the hell would anyone want to do that?
I am against selling them off to the EU and having foreign countries tolling them and taking the money out of the country.
That is just dumb. The state should maintain the roads and keep toll money inside the country or not have tolls at all.
I want to see more motorways, the railway station at the Maze reopened and warehousing and business parks created around it for drop ship companies such as Amazon who could use them as gateways into Europe when the UK leaves. I would build roads from the Maze to all parts of Ireland and build a museum which would be Irelands largest grossing tourist attraction.
As for eradicating pensions. There is a 280 million black hole in Irelands deficit in 2017 which has yet to be filled.
How much of Irelands debt was to plug pension deficits incurred by Fianna Fail?
Would you support borrowing to plug pension deficits Donal?
I wouldn’t.
I don’t know what the solution should be, but we desperately need one.
I have never discussed sacking public sector workers or policing so again you are just making things up which is not genuine conversation.
And as for gaining followers. What the hell does that even mean? I don’t even have a twitter account as it does my head in. Follow me where exactly?
I enjoy discussing with most people on Judes site but for some reason you refuse to engage with me and instead seem to be competing for some sort of respect.
Why don’t you earn it and lets talk about these things in language we can all understand?
Jessica,
You will not be getting anymore of my time after this. No offence to you but you do come across as quite an idiot on the economic and political fronts. You’re seriously suggesting that Sinn Fein could win elections by sacking public sector workers in the NHS and replacing them with private sector workers who actually charge more, not less – PFI is costlier as is the use of agency workers, check out the statistics you fool!
You’re also implying that you would take money from pensioners who are living in vulnerable circumstances given their age. No I would never cut money to the elderly, I would raise income taxes to pay for pensions, including raising it on the highest earners and capital gains tax on multinationals, by 1%, which would plug that hole. The deficit didn’t arise from pensions you stupid moron, it came about from bailing out toxic banks each year which added to the public spending burden – which was increased as more and more people became unemployed and needed welfare.
Your views are obscure and ill-thought, although you are entitled to hold them. But do not bring my name into your articles and please don’t think that anyone seriously takes you seriously – look at the risible response you’ve received to this article. I listen and read A LOT more than you do. People are of the impression you don’t even follow politics and the stuff you are advocating, particularly on the health service, goes against every Sinn Fein policy ever devised in that regard. You are economically and politically illiterate. Nobody thinks they are better than you but people do think you don’t have the slightest clue what you’re talking about.
Jessica
You don’t deserve the abuse Donal has levelled at you here. The fact that he hasn’t been able to at least disagree with you in a cordial manner says more about him than you.
No ones got all the perfect answers not even Donal no matter how much he thinks he reads and listens.
I agree Scott. Although I may not agree with everything Jessica writes at least she has the cahones to state her case and she should be at afforded some courtesy.
Donal, you should pull your horns in a bit. Don’t let SF’s recent ‘success’ go to your head.
I don’t see the point in posting a blog if you aren’t prepared to engage with people on it.
It would be a dull place if we all agreed with one another on everything.
I don’t mind the abuse so much but would appreciate more engagement from Donal on the issues. If he is as well read as he claims to be we have a lot to gain from the benefit of his knowledge and wisdom
Thank you Scott, but these are answers someone is going to have to come up with
I don’t see much talk going on where it should be happening, what is wrong with getting the ball rolling here?
I think you’ll find, in many other articles, that Jessica is usually the first person to run people down and ridicule views she doesn’t agree with as being abnormal or lacking in some way. Jessica, I don’t want to engage with you because it’s obvious to me that you don’t have sufficient understanding of facts over your own inclinations. I also don’t have the time to spend going around in circles with you when you change your views like the weather. I don’t care what you personally think, I’ve presented you with facts and you can interpret them as you please. Your opinions are not Sinn Fein’s policies and will never become them.
Says the guy happy to come on here and ridicule people before profit, gerry caroll and eamon mccann over poor economic arguments but doesn’t like to stand over his own comments or for anyone else to question them.
No I don’t have all the answers, but I am interested in what solutions political parties who expect our votes and our support are putting forward on issues that matter to me greatly.
And if they expect our votes, then I think we are entitled to expect them engage with us and to explain their solutions in words us simple folk can understand.
Or at the very least show some fucking respect.
As I say, no-one has ever put me off supporting Sinn Fein more than you.
liam,rory,richard,joe..nuff said
do not bring my name into your articles……..alright for you to blog everybody and anybodys name,mostly abuse as well if they arnt sheep.
I assure you that I am no fool Donal, but at least you have shown some sort of engagement.
The public sector as a single employer is a failed entity. However sudden change is not feasible so any change will have to be over a suitable time period.
Gradually more and more public sector jobs will be moved into the private sector as outsourced contracts. People are not sacked, they are redeployed and this process is already happening in both parts of this island so I guess it is the way things will be whether we like it or not.
Ireland needs a NHS of our own, we have an opportunity to envisage one.
I assume the wages in the south are higher than in the north. Do we merge all employees and increase the wages of the northern staff to match that of the south?
I guess that would give us the figure we would be working with.
We would still have the issue that neither health service is performing and needs much greater funding to deliver.
Once we get the final figure I guess we could explore whether outsourcing would be more cost effective.
Lets take it further.
If more private services were outsourced, more private hospitals and health centres would appear and it would be safe to assume that the costs would go down?
Add to this the purchasing power from public procurement tender frameworks which as well as costs should be performance rated.
I would not be convinced that the result would not be a better world class service, free at point of delivery that would not be that much more expensive than the amount needed to run the same service level within a fully public NHS.
I certainly would not rubbish it out of hand the way you have, especially when it is being run this way in other countries already and statistics will soon be available in the near future on the results.
Sorry Jessica mo chara, but the reasons why the NHS and other public bodies are inefficient is simple really………….it’s a deliberate policy of corrupt and greedy govts to undermine these bodies in order to convince folk privatisation is the only way forward. Austerity etc is all part of the scam. Blaming the burden of migrants, benefits scroungers etc etc is also part of the scam. Meanwhile ignore the availability of monies raised to fight wars in the Middle East or renovate palaces; these monies always seem to be available don’t they? I guess what I am driving at is a proper genuine govt would make the a health service and other public bodies very workable unfortunately they are all corrupt,selfish chancers and cowards.
Well, that actually makes sense also WT, especially in England case where they can afford to even consider spending 100 billion on trident.
Not sure what Ireland has been doing with the money though.
I guess it would take a change in government outside of the duopoly to find out.
Why hasn’t it happened you would wonder?
Are we simply so gullible to be led by the media to keep electing the same corrupt stooges?
“Are we simply so gullible to be led by the media to keep electing the same corrupt stooges?”
Yes. The media is a powerful weapon that’s why so many revolutions and coup participants immediately seize t.v networks. They’ve worked out the majority of citizens still heed and believe what they have been accustomed and grown up with I.e their national broadcaster or newspaper. Mick Collins knew their influence. Sure didn’t he put a gun to the head of an editor of some Dublin based newspaper at one time for their anti republican articles? Although he let himself down by not putting a gun to the head of some bishops…….another powerful weapon.
let himself down……….didnt half .
“let himself down……….didnt half .”
lol Billy. Tá fhios agam Billy tá fhios agam ach sin sceál eile!
No Jessica I don’t respect your views or consider them worthy of engaging with because you’ve already admitted you have never even read a Sinn Fein manifesto and you’ve verified by what you’ve written, beyond any reasonable doubt, that you haven’t a clue about economics. It’s as simple as that. Don’t curse at me and don’t ridicule me for not wanting to engage with your foolish inclinations – I can assure I am not the only one who doesn’t take you seriously. I’ve been open and honest with you that I don’t think you have a clue what you’re talking about and it’s not my job to spend hours and hours sitting commenting on this to educate you in “language which simple folk can understand.”
I have better things to do with my time and I see no point in spending it debating with someone who is consistently inconsistent. I do NOT one iota if I put you off voting for anyone, in fact it’s probably a good thing because you are NOT left wing; you are a soft Thatcherite and you never stop repeating the same boring rubbish over and over again. Get a life and wise up, try spending your time reading and informing yourself instead of running people down when you don’t even know what they are talking about – it comes across as abnormal, no offense to you!
Goodbye
I don’t know what your relationship with Sinn Fein is at an official level Donal, but you make Arlene Foster look like a fairy godmother.
You may as well just call me a crocodile and say if you engage with me on one point I just keep coming back for more.
I would have thought that this blog would have been a perfect PR opportunity for Sinn Fein to engage with people and reach out to new support especially from the unionist persuasion.
You come across as a decision maker within Sinn Fein especially over policy. If that was the case I would run a mile from Sinn Fein.
Does Sinn Fein not want to engage with the people unless they have read their Manifesto?
How many voters do you believe have read a parties manifesto?
Anyway, I have since read this manifesto and I see nothing anti-capitalism about it.
It clearly states Sinn Fein support the free movement of people, goods and services.
“The north must continue to have free movement of our people, goods, and services on a north/ south basis, and between the other member states of the EU enabling us to benefit from the biggest trading bloc in the world.”
https://www.sinnfein.ie/files/2017/MANIFESTO_ENGLISH.pdf
Now I support everything I have heard Sinn Fein people say on TV or radio, I have listed in detail from their website which I support and now I have read their manifesto and I again like what I see.
But I still don’t like your views so something is amiss.
But then according to you, Sinn Fein don’t want my support, don’t want my vote and don’t care to waste time engaging with stupid people like myself in “language which simple folk can understand”.
Donal, I have never asked for your education.
I only ever asked about the comments you made on this site which I disagreed with strongly.
So lets keep things very simple.
1
You mentioned support bringing wages down to the average industrial wage as you suggested for those running the country?
Is this a precondition for reunification?
If it is voluntary to put money in the pot for other things, that is fine but don’t be highlighting it as a policy as it is going to put people like myself off.
Do you not see how this would cause an exodus of outward immigration of the most talented of Irish people to other countries where they will feel more appreciated?
Should doctors wages also be capped, nurses, consultants, barristers, even managers of private business, where do you draw the line?
2
You mentioned how through nationalisation of private industry people would receive pay rises putting more money back into the economy.
This is Marxist nonsense and would collapse the state.
The manifesto clearly supports free trade with the EU single market, the biggest capitalist trading block on this planet.
How does that square with your support for nationalising existing private business to which you sited NAMA as an example of it in action?
Are these not reasonable questions for someone self proclaimed to be so in tune with Sinn Fein policy.
I never suggested anything regarding cutting money to pensioners, I said I would not borrow to plug deficits in pension funds.
I am aware that the public debt deficit is mostly due to bailing out the banks, but not all of it is.
Raising taxes is certainly one way of plugging those deficits.
Hardly radical thinking though.
And yes I am a dreamer, I see opportunities everywhere and get excited about the possibilities.
But I would rather be that than a dream destroyer.
What a pompous ass you are Donal. Just who do you think you are? Some jumped up unknown economist. Away and catch yourself on. You seem to have big ideas about yourself there kid.
I am genuinely appalled at your ignorance and lack of respect reading these comments, Donal. I don’t always agree with Jessica’s views but by no means do I or have I ever levelled abuse at her, brought her abilities or business into it. You’ve written many articles levelling abuse at public officials. You definitely have a thing for PBP and even the SDLP. I’ve posted many comments trying to engage with you on same and you fail to respond. Jessica engages in all her blogs. I recall in the past (when you did respond), contributors challenging points in your articles and you go straight on the offence and attack them, not their point – the ad hominem approach. Put it this way – I don’t even bother reading your blog articles anymore and usually enjoy reading all the contributors on Jude’s blog. Jessica – head up and keep dreaming! I think a lot is us have been and still are confused about SF – I’m more so now that I’ve ever been.
Thank you TH.
I am aware I am a dreamer, I would be full of ideas and would acknowledge I would not be in any position to fulfil them.
I see this site as a means to get people talking, to kick start debate and preferably away from the past, the negative orange and green stuff which does bring out the worst in me.
We need to be talking about how unity will work, how it will be paid for.
Raising taxes as Donal suggests is one valid idea, but it isn’t always the best.
If a business needs more money, sure it can raise prices, but in doing so we risk losing business. Governments will likewise risk losing revenue from putting people out of work.
We can borrow, but that just pushes the problem down the road for another day.
Usually the answer is better management, better efficiency but mostly from pursuing new revenue streams and getting in new business.
To me, the country should be run the same way.
If we want better services, then we need to earn more money.
Ignoring the inefficiencies, Ireland has huge potential in tourism. The museum at the maze would genuinely be the biggest tourist attraction in Ireland.
Had the development gone ahead, brexit would have offered the opportunity for drop ship companies to build warehousing among other opportunities.
There is a train station and good road connectivity to the ports.
Investing in a road infrastructure from here to every direction in Ireland would be a wise investment of public money.
Is it not about time we started fighting elections on how to grow our economy and not about the conflict or even showing each other respect?
Jessica
Just on a couple of points you made. The 3% budget deficit rule is a EU rule which is a condition of any country using the Euro. It’s wildly disregarded however with most euro zone countries running higher deficits. It’s point though is to stop weaker economies, with Greece being the most obvious example, from running up huge debts with the cheap borrowing that being in the Euro allows them to have. If your borrowing gets out of control we all have seen what can happen with nations on the verge of bankruptcy.
Secondly, you mentioned setting up a Irish version of the Bank of England to control inflation and balance the economy. Inflation is primarily controlled by the adjustment of the base interest rate. The BOE controls that in the U.K. and the Federal reserve control that in the USA. Ireland along with all other euro zone countries surrendered their national central bank and have their interest rates etc set by the European Central Bank, which is based in Frankfurt in Germany.
In order to fulfill your proposals of a new central bank and to freely borrow more than 3%, Ireland would have to abandon the Euro and probably leave the EU. Is this what you are advocating?
In principal the 3% rule isn’t a bad idea Scott.
It does sound a bit like training wheels for the less responsible countries who would otherwise abuse the low rate of borrowing though.
But to unite this country, it will need serious investment and where will that come from?
We can either go begging which I dislike, or we produce a business case for how to increase GDP significantly and then seek approval to blow the 3% deficit rule within the EU, or as you suggest we leave it altogether.
While the ECB has done a very good job in helping Irelands economy recover from the bailout the EU imposed on us but I would have to say, my preference would indeed be for our own central bank.
And yes, that once again begs the question about remaining within the EU or having greater sovereignty. We cant deny that they know how to grow an economy.
It seems that sooner or later those are decisions we are going to have to make.
I would be more interested in what you think Scott.
I think that Irelands (ROI) economy has two fundamental bedrocks which at present are vital to its success.
They are its low corporation tax and its membership of the EU.
Ireland couldn’t afford to leave the EU as Ireland is only a small country and wouldn’t have the leverage in trade negotiations that a country like the U.K. would have since it is the 5th largest economy in the world. Ireland needs the strength in numbers the EU provides it with. The UK has the size to go it alone, Ireland doesn’t.
Low corporation tax also helps attract investment that would never have came to Ireland and although it seems unfair that these huge unimaginably rich companies can get such a favourable tax rate, without it its highly unlikely they would be in Ireland. Multinational companies choose Ireland for mainly 3 reasons. They are in the EU, English speaking and have low corporation tax.
Irelands problem is it has a over reliance on these huge companies to provide it with tax income. It’s great when your getting it but when your economy is so reliant on a couple dozen companies like Apple, Google etc you leave yourself vulnerable to shifts in the global economic landscape. Those companies wouldn’t bat a eyelid at moving on if they sniffed a better deal somewhere else.
The German companies collectively known as the Mittelstand should be an example to Ireland and the U.K. of how to run a successful manufacturing base as a developed economy. I don’t know exactly how the German Mittelstand continues to be so successful, whether it’s through goverment policy or simply a diffrent business culture but they are certainly doing something right.
Ireland however will always be at a disadvantage when it comes to manufacturing. Irelands a prisoner of geography in a way as with few natural resources and the fact that it is an island hanging of another island in the north west corner of Europe it will always be difficult to compete in manufacturing terms with Central European juggernaut of Germany.
While I support Ireland and the UK being members of the EU (I’m a remainer) the single currency is fundamental flawed and I think it was a complete over reach by the EU and probably is the single biggest thing hindering many of the economies in it, with the exception of Germany who enjoy a devalued currency to boost there exports. Although at this stage I don’t know if it’s possible for a country to leave the single currency.
It’s long and complicated but there is a book by Nobel prize winning economist Joseph Stiglitz called The Euro which makes very compelling case against the single currency. I would highly recommend it.
I agree with a lot of what you say Scott, but I would add a 4th reason is that we are a highly skilled workforce especially in the technology sector and even if corporation tax did rise I imagine a great deal of those services would remain for that reason in particular. We need to have more confidence in our peoples value.
Over half of Irelands tax revenue now comes from domestic corporations so I would say the over reliance on multi nationals is slowly rectifying though maintaining FDI remains vital for long term sustainability of those domestic businesses. In fact you could say our economic interdependency is in its early stages.
Lack of natural resources is indeed a major factor in making us very reliant on other countries but one industry I think we are equipped for would be renewable energy. I know I keep harping on about this, but Ireland as an island could invest into developing existing renewable energy technologies, build them in Harland and Wolff and export them around the world. We should be 100% self sufficient on renewables and the benefits this would bring to all businesses in cheaper operational costs should be obvious. I am at a loss to explain why it isn’t happening.
I would also be against the single currency and would prefer a more federal EU than a political union but beyond our control.
You make a very good point about the single currency benefitting Germany though.
I think the childish attacks on Jessica are just bullying tactics.
I don’t think we would ever agree politically, Jessica, but I think the bullying you are getting on here is plain wrong. Maybe you realise now, that if you don’t see eye to eye with the Shinner top brass you are the enemy, regardless of background.
Donal – wise up and come in from the playground. You are pathetic.
Oh Donal isn’t bullying me Jo, I believe Donal feels that I am bullying him.
I don’t mean to be so brash and am trying to be more tolerant and less abusive but it is a work in progress. 🙂
It is the subject matter that gets me worked up. I don’t discuss politics at work or even with family time much so it all gets released on Judes site which is I suppose isn’t really fair and I am trying to calm it down.
I will abide by any ruling Jude says about using his blog which I really enjoy and I hope I am not causing him too much trouble.
As for us not ever agreeing politically. I don’t know, we will have to reach agreement at some point do you not think?
Should we not at least try and see if it is possible?