Unionism: three (misguided) reasons to feel uncheerful

If I were a unionist, I suspect I’d be feeling unhappy this morning. Unhappy X 3, in fact.

The first reason for my unhappiness would be the recent election here. While the DUP is still the largest party elected to Stormont, it’s had a dramatic slide in the number of seats it obtained and its leader is under severe pressure, from without and within. None of this means any change to the constitutional position, but it does suggest a coming time when there might be a majority of people in the NE who do want an end to partition. But gloominess on the part of unionists over the recent election is based on a possible future when unionists might be outvoted here. Since they’ve known that was a possibility with consequences since at least 1998, most unionists should and will know that in practical terms, nothing has changed.

The second reason would be Enda Kenny’s speech in Philadelphia yesterday. After years of huffing and puffing, Enda has announced that there’ll be a referendum on whether all Irish citizens, including those abroad and those here in the NE, should be allowed to vote in Irish presidential elections. This could make unionists unhappy in that it’ll seem to foreshadow a time when all Irish citizens would vote for all their  elected representatives, not just the President. Again, it’s the shadow not the substance. The President of Ireland, like Queen Elizabeth, is a figure-head without powers. Who votes him or her into office won’t change the constitutional position of unionists in the NE. So they have no call to feel other than sanguine about presidential voting rights. It’s a long way to Tipperary and it’s an even longer way from electing an Irish President to electing Irish politicians.

The third reason would be Micheal Martin’s white paper on Irish reunification. Mr Martin says it’ll consist of twelve points, laying out how a united Ireland might look and how unionists in such a reunited Ireland might fare. This is for nationalists a desirable move, since it finally features a major Irish party going a step further than sloganizing on Irish reunification. If we’re talking about Irish reunification, for or against, we should know what we’re talking about. But as Martin himself acknowledges, such a paper is a long way from realization. It’s “possible” he says, that a united Ireland might come in his lifetime. He’s fifty-six. Again, unionists have always known a united Ireland is a possibility. Martin’s move doesn’t bring a united Ireland nearer by ten seconds. It simply gives those interested a chance to know what the term ‘united Ireland’ means.

So while  the three events – the poor showing by unionists in the recent election, the extension of the Presidential vote to all Irish citizens, and Micheal Martin’s proposed white paper on Irish unity – don’t bring Irish unity closer, they show that more people are giving  thought to such a notion.  But only when a majority in the north – and the south – vote for such an outcome will it happen. And Tipperary again applies.

What unionists and everybody else should concern themselves with – and which the PUP’s Billy Hutchinson has urged people not even to mention – is the reaction of loyalist/unionist paramilitaries to these three events. History has taught us that, when under threat (real or imagined), loyalism has a tendency to react with violence. The history of the state, including its foundation, provides plenty of precedents.  While that is a worrying possibility, nobody who has any respect for democracy (and specifically the Good Friday Agreement) should allow that  possibility to enter into the equation. If we do, we allow anti-democratic forces to dominate democratic decisions. As with Brexit or the election of Donald Trump, we either believe in democracy or we don’t.

45 Responses to Unionism: three (misguided) reasons to feel uncheerful

  1. Hoboroad March 13, 2017 at 10:13 am #

    Should we reserve seats in the Dail for the Six Counties? If so how many? A new flag? A constitutional convention to draw up a new constitution. A all island forum to draw up a new bill of rights.

  2. Twinbrook Lad March 13, 2017 at 11:35 am #

    The announcement of the referendum to allow us in the NE to vote for our president is a welcome decision. But here is a thought and I wonder if it has any truth. A scheme needed to be devised to get the Irish electorate interested in northern affairs, together with the triggering of Article 50 & Brexit, Nicola Sturgeon beating her drum over IndyRef2. All of these together have hinted at a date in Late 2018 to hold the vote. Which potentially will lead to the break up of the United Kingdom. Could this be civil service/diplomatic movement to hold a referendum on the reunification of Ireland?
    As has been mentioned before, Reunification wont happen unless Dublin is behind it and if they can get the voters out on the presidential election, the referendum, ach sure, lets tag on the reunification referendum there too?
    (Just a conspiracy theory of mine)

  3. brian wilson March 13, 2017 at 12:17 pm #

    While it was a poor election for unionists the nationalist/republican vote was still below 40% and below that obtained 2003 2007 and 2011.http://northdownindependent.com/united-ireland-inevitable/

  4. RJC March 13, 2017 at 12:26 pm #

    It looks to be full steam ahead in Scotland too…

  5. Perkin Warbeck March 13, 2017 at 12:47 pm #

    It becomes increasingly more difficulty, Esteeemed Blogmeister, to pinpoint just what it is that continues to fuel the animus which the Northern Yunes harbour for the Free Southern Stateen.

    Is it about the Political, the Religious or the Cultural ?

    If any of these three, then perhaps they might try to turn the dial on their radio and tune it to the those stations which broadcast across hill and dale where the Dail writ runs.

    Take Politics: where the main item on the gender-neutral agenda of EVERY mainstream wireless station is to see which of the pair, the interviewer or the interviewee, gets to kick the Shinners first in thier first syllable.

    As recently as on this morning’s Pat ‘Pat –a-Cake’ Kenny programme we witnessed this very (yawn, stretch, trouser cough) phenom at play when he had Micheál ‘House’ Martin in for a, (gasp) rigorous interrogation.

    To discover why Pat the Professional has aquired this affectionate sobriquet one has but to refer to the Road Movie in which Bob Hope and Bing Crosby play a seeminlgy innocuous game of pat-a-cake . This involved accompanying the nursery rhyme with hand-clapping between Bob and Bing. Alternating normal individual clapping and two-handed clapping between both.

    Pat-a-cake, pat-a-cake, baker’s man.
    Bake me a cake as fast as you can
    You roll it, pat it, mark it with a “B”
    And you put it in the oven for baby and me!

    Prior to swinging around in unison and planting a punch with balled fist apiece on the chn of an unsuspecting A-rab.

    On the Pat ‘Pat-a-Cake’ Kenny programmes substitute Shinner for A-rab. In this morning’s instance there was a near simultaneous pat-a-cake puncheroo on the chin of the Shinners.

    The Fianna Failure came up and out with a real humdinger of a neologism: U.M. No, it doesn’t stand for Una Mullally of The Unionist Times but rather:

    -Ugly Majoritanism.

    The Fianna Failure FFuhrer had in mind a 51 % / 49 % split. The sort of U.M. the Shnners have in mind. (A daarlin’ word, Joxer, a daarlin’ word. Only thing is you need to be a real Leeside-langer like, to get your tongue around it proper, boy).

    Hmmm.

    (Memo to moi: must remember the next time the Fianna Failures achieve a U.M.)

    Meanwhile, the Social Media slip of the Host with the Most (Moola) was showing when he opted to have a dig at the, erm, Musical Wing of the Shinners.

    -The ugly side of Social Media first came to our notice when at the time of the Millennium the ‘best broadcasting station in the world’ the BBC was looking for ‘the most popular song of the newly deceased Millennium. And what won? ‘A Nation Once Again’ when the Wolfe Tone’s fans conspired to swamp the telephone lines.!!!!

    Take Religion:, where, curiously enough, the Harris surname has a role to play in this most recent instance also . Wheras the surname was implicit in the Political segment (see Fianna Failure above) the Harris name flaunts itself explicitly, and then some in this facet:.

    KTP

    When Simon Og Harris socked it, Paisley-
    Style, to Ole Red Sox, it did not phase he;.
    To Roaring Hanna
    In heaven, manna
    Simon Harris out-harassed R. Ian P., asily.

    (KTP, incidentally, is text for Ketchup and the latest newsflash emanating from the Vatican indicates that Il Papa has now a Ketchup Transfusion Unit on permanent standby. He had been suitably warned: once condoms were allowed south of the Black Pig’s Dyke,the next logical items to follow were, erm, condiments).

    Take Culture: One cannot but (sob) reference Cardiff / Caerdydd last Friday. The same Friday which was shaping up to be not just a good Friday, but, to all i. and p. the, erm, Best.

    Strike up the band with (sob) the appropriate dirge::

    -Let’s cry on each other’s shoulder to shoulder. …………

  6. Jc March 13, 2017 at 2:02 pm #

    Could the North Eastern unionists put forward a candidate for the presidency.Arlene for president..

    • Ryan March 13, 2017 at 9:32 pm #

      “Could the North Eastern unionists put forward a candidate for the presidency.Arlene for president..”

      Would there be any need for a Unionist candidate? there’s already Fine Gael….

      • jessica March 13, 2017 at 9:39 pm #

        Can you imagine if they joined forces Ryan?

        Fortunately northern unionism is too obsessed and intolerant to capitalise in such an arrangement. It would still involve showing respect to what they see as fenians not worthy to share the same room The stench would still be too much for them to bear

  7. Scott Rutherford March 13, 2017 at 2:53 pm #

    In relation to the Irish presidential election will everyone in NI be able to vote I.e Unionists and Nationalists alike?

    Would a Irish passport be a prerequisite to voting?

    • paddykool March 13, 2017 at 3:51 pm #

      Well Scott ,are they not all Irish? As you imply , they might need some sort of ID at the booth, but I got away with my Bus Pass a couple of weeks ago and not an eye was batted at the last election and I’ll probably use it again when Mr Brokenshire gives us all the pleasure of a re-run in a few weeks time.I get the Big All Ireland Pass this summer too, so surely that’ll be a goer for allsorts of occasions, eh?..

      • Scott Rutherford March 13, 2017 at 4:09 pm #

        It would be some sight to see PK, 300,000 Unionists heading to vote for a pro partition Irish presidential candidate. Swinging the vote to the least all Ireland Republican on the ticket. Doubt any Unionist leader would have the political wit though to realize the potential power that could provide. They’ll probably just declare nothing to do with us and look the other way.

        • RJC March 13, 2017 at 5:45 pm #

          Unionism certainly seems to be reacting well to the news. The fabled ‘middle ground’ of Mike Nesbitt’s UUP would appear to be fading fast, as Big Tom takes the stage –

          ‘Unionists have warned the Irish Government that no polling stations will be set up in Northern Ireland for future Irish presidential elections.’

          http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-39254792

          They still don’t get it do they? Sadly, I suspect we’ll see a lot more of this from Unionism over the coming years.

          • Ryan March 13, 2017 at 9:41 pm #

            “‘Unionists have warned the Irish Government that no polling stations will be set up in Northern Ireland for future Irish presidential elections.’”

            Tom, who represents a majority nationalist area and who is only in the job thanks to a Unionist pact, had no issues with Polish/Bulgarians polling stations popping up all over the North when our Polish/Bulgarian residents went to vote in their elections. Its strange he has an issue when it has anything to do with the “taigs”.

            Not to mention Tom seems to think that he speaks for the “People of Northern Ireland”. You would have thought his party losing nearly half their seats would make Tom wake up and see the hundreds of thousands of nationalists he lives alongside. Danny Kennedy sure got that wake up call….

          • MT March 13, 2017 at 9:44 pm #

            I should imagine the Southern government will manage the expat/foreign-resident vote by post.

        • PF March 13, 2017 at 6:34 pm #

          Scott

          “It would be some sight to see PK, 300,000 Unionists heading to vote for a pro partition Irish presidential candidate.”

          But why not encourage a Unionist candidate to stand in the election? And why not under the name of a new Irish Unionist Party? Why not give citizens of the RoI to vote for a pro-UK Union President?

          Unionism doesn’t have to equate to a settlement based around Partition.

          A failure to broaden the concept of the UK Union will be the rock Unionism perishes on.

          • Scott Rutherford March 13, 2017 at 9:00 pm #

            It has merit PF and I personally like your idea of a UI in a federal UK.

            I suppose if the people in the ROI are happy to sacrifice a large degree of sovereignty to be in the EU then why not in a new U.K.?

            Probably the biggest stumbling block would be the anti English sentiment that still exist due to a troubled history.

            All in all though while I like and find merit in your ideal but politics is the art of the possible and I don’t think it’s ever got a chance to get off the ground.

          • jessica March 13, 2017 at 9:25 pm #

            It is English conservatism and imperialist attitudes that is causing anti british sentiment tin Ireland Scott.
            It wasn’t that long ago I was suggesting something like this also, but the behaviour of the DUP and Arlene in particular coupled with british refusal to treat us with respect both in terms of the conflict legacy and the impact of the border post brexit has made it almost impossible to want anything to do with the UK.

            If I was to do another road map today it would be to remain within the EU and have as little to do with England as possible.

            I now think Scotland and Ireland should maintain a common travel area but for the hard border to be around England. We have enough problems but we are in short supply of solutions.

            http://www.judecollins.com/2016/08/a-roadmap-for-irish-unification-by-jessica-mcgrann/

  8. gendjinn March 13, 2017 at 3:40 pm #

    Southern politicians see the writing on the wall, they see that if they leave re-unification to SF they will use it to become the largest party in the state.

    There is no way Martin and Kenny, now, all of a sudden, start making concrete moves after 20 years of platitudes since the GFA.

    Northern Ireland has four to five years left, let’s ensure we take it out at least 1 day before its centenary.

    • jessica March 13, 2017 at 5:22 pm #

      If there is to be celebrations of NI centenary then I will be at the protests which I hope will outnumber them. I could not stomach celebrations of partition, that would be such an insult.

      In fact I very much doubt the peace process could survive such an insult, especially if the brits are still denying their true involvement in the conflict.

      • Oz 2015 March 13, 2017 at 7:13 pm #

        Jessica.. The Free State will be celebrating 100 years. So you can hardly be upset if unionists do.
        A UI will need a peace. Some day we shall all need to write 5 things we like about the other In a public form. as a piece of conflict resolution.
        I am a Nationalist but If we don’t have a UI like Switzerland . where there will be a unionist canton.We will all lose.
        Unionism will need to build a new identity for itself so as the strands do not get splintered.
        So they can have their space in both land and culture and freedom to think.
        As an Ulster Scots wrote to enjoy Life Liberity and the pursuit of happiness.

        We were upset that unionism wouldn’t send a delegation to 1916.
        Somebody should attend the partition 100 in the 5 Counties

        We’re getting close to a renconcilition on this island.
        We need to let unionists we are going to want to share.
        When Queen’s island can belong to somebody from Galway and when
        The phoenix park and Bru Na Boinne Newgrange can belong to somebody from the Shankill.
        Then we will have won.
        Give and take.
        Nationalist Ireland of the Cead Mile failte now has to do that for 1.6 million people.
        As for unionism there is a lot of work left unfinished in the Free State.In return for a Swiss Canton you guys can build a Swiss railway and run it on time!

        • jessica March 13, 2017 at 8:01 pm #

          Upset will be putting it mildly Oz.
          Partition led to civil war and the abandonment of 6 counties to abusive british rule.
          My only decision will be whether to protest in Dublin or in the north.
          I’ve had enough being treated like second rate Irish. Celebrate if they like, so long as they are under no illusion of the offense it will cause

          • MT March 13, 2017 at 8:36 pm #

            “Partition led to civil war”

            It didn’t.

  9. RJC March 13, 2017 at 4:26 pm #

    ‘Now, what I want is Facts. Teach these boys and girls nothing but Facts…’

    Some great analysis of the recent election by Faha over on Bangordub’s blog –

    https://bangordub.wordpress.com/2017/03/12/winners-and-losers-ae17-analysis/

  10. MT March 13, 2017 at 5:49 pm #

    “Since they’ve known that was a possibility with consequences since at least 1998, most unionists should and will know that in practical terms, nothing has changed.”

    Why would unionists know aboutthe principle of consent only since 1998?.

  11. MT March 13, 2017 at 6:17 pm #

    “History has taught us that, when under threat (real or imagined), loyalism has a tendency to react with violence. The history of the state, including its foundation, provides plenty of precedents. While that is a worrying possibility, nobody who has any respect for democracy (and specifically the Good Friday Agreement) should allow that possibility to enter into the equation. If we do, we allow anti-democratic forces to dominate democratic decisions. As with Brexit or the election of Donald Trump, we either believe in democracy or we don’t.”

    Surely the most obvious precedent is the PIRA campaign? Its campaign dominated democratic decisions for decades.

  12. paddykool March 13, 2017 at 6:45 pm #

    Interesting …..that idea that “history” started in December 1969. It’s quite an absract notion…

  13. MT March 13, 2017 at 6:53 pm #

    “Interesting …..that idea that “history” started in December 1969. It’s quite an absract notion”

    Whose idea is this?

    • Gearóid March 14, 2017 at 11:00 am #

      Yours MT.

      • paddykool March 14, 2017 at 11:00 pm #

        Well …yes Gearoid…that’s exactly what I thought he said…unless something else precedes a precedent….

        • giordanobruno March 15, 2017 at 7:45 am #

          Many precedents can precede other precedents obviously.
          I think MT’S point that republicanism has a history of resorting to violence too is perfectly sound, (though it may be whataboutery,) so why the flippant responses?

          • jessica March 15, 2017 at 8:06 am #

            MT is a troll only here to frustrate and disrupt genuine conversation and debate.
            He has admitted to not even reading posts, other than to respond with one liner put downs devoid of reason or argument and to use copy paste to kill of discussion.

            The only positive is he highlights and showcases to the world the intransigence and arrogance inherent within unionism.

            That you rush to defend this unionist intransigence and arrogance is for you to explain.

            But there comes a point when you wonder if it is worth the hassle.

          • paddykool March 15, 2017 at 8:56 am #

            Surely “precede” means to” go before” something or someone in time and space , therefore a precedent, in that sense ,is a literal “starting point” for what proceeds from and after the preceding event. I think that’s what Gearoid is understanding, gio.

          • paddykool March 15, 2017 at 9:13 am #

            As for MT.No one really knows anything about him/her…just those two capital letters The M and the T. Is he a unionist , an anarchist or a troll ?That’s a question alright. Who knows? He never said he is any of those things and has never really argued his point of view, whatever it might be , anywhere that I can recall. He may be deadly serious or he may be having a bit of a laugh. Maybe he is a rerpressed republican or a closet Maoist …who knows what he /she is?
            My understanding is that he may simply have a need to cut and paste. He seems drawn to it somehow….like an odd hobby or a drive of sorts. No one will ever know the whys or the wherefores of any of it . Maybe he’s a humourist with no agenda at all, so it’s probably best not to get too excited or exercised by any of it, like the e-mails that pop into your inbox ,unheeded .It’s probably best to simply accept all of it as part of the general entertainment, because he /she probably derives some great pleasure from the interjections , unknown to anyone else…otherwise why would he /she be drawn to repeat the same behaviour time and time again?

          • jessica March 15, 2017 at 9:51 am #

            Harry, we have the ability to learn from everything that we do, including engaging with someone like MT so I disagree that we know nothing.

            MT is most definitely a unionist, he is extremely committed to upholding the view that 6 of Irelands counties are part of a bigger country called the UK which in his mind takes precedence over the country that is the island of Ireland. I called him a he as did you and I would agree with your intuition that he is male.

            He views the army of the UK as legitimate and as having the divine write to kill citizens who in Irelands case would seek to break the union between Ireland and Britain as well as those who get caught up in between.

            He has the intelligence to know where is too far, and will even go so far as to disown the DUP even though many of their views would be on a par with his own and will pay lip service to the bad apples notion that the british army were in some way impartial.

            That would suggest a degree of deceitfulness and that there is an agenda.

            The copy paste response and persistent one line refuting of even the most obvious facts without any conversation in return, offering no opposing point of view other than no it isn’t, or yes it is suggest what that agenda might be.

            Its result is to frustrate conversation on one of the rare mediums that are open to pro Irish opinion and how many times as he turned a thread within an interesting topic that would be nice to hear other genuine opinions on, and made it into an unreadable farce of acrimony and nonsense?

            I listen to what people say, and I will change my views based on convincing argument. But how many people has MT turned off from actually reading and engaging on this site to the occasional view and ignore?

            I doubt this site will be around much longer if he is allowed to continue without a public warning for users not to engage with those intent on such trolling behaviour.

          • paddykool March 15, 2017 at 12:25 pm #

            Well , Jessica, if Jude thought that he was threat to his and anyone’s well-being or sanity , he could simply switch him off very easily.It is so easy to do that , but Jude allows a lot of opinions that he might not always agree with. You think it is simple trolling, but in the way that it operates , I was wondering whether or not was it on some kind of spectrum such as Obsessive Compulsive Disorder (OCD). Many otherwise intelligent people are afflicted in various ways and appear on varying levels of a spectrum. I believe it is treatable too, by counselling. Many people have various forms of mild autism and social anxiety which manifest in this kind of repetitive behaviour.
            As for his political opinions? Well he always seems to approach every event with a great deal of repressed anger.That is the vibe that comes across.There’s acurtness and a distinct lack of humour or civility….or maybe he is of the dead-pan Tony Hancock style of humorist. Mayb ehe hasn’t got a sense of humour.It’s difficult to tell.
            You have to understand that someone engaging in a site like this is choosing for one reason or another to enter a conversation of sorts., but with him there is no actual engagement or conversation and the real wonder is ,why bother at all? I can understand the creative urge of anyone to write something of your own and lay out a few of their own ideas ,but i have difficulty understanding this” cut and paste” business.I find it really rather odd.Can you imagine a conversation like that across a table-top? Imagine! You ‘d make your excuse and exit the room within minutes !In the end I suppose if it continues he will simply be ignored anyway .Can you imagine inviting him tojoin a book -club or out for a drink ,with an attitude like that?…no ? ….Me neither….

          • giordanobruno March 15, 2017 at 12:33 pm #

            paddy
            Precedent does not mean starting point.
            MT referred to the PIRA campaign as a precedent for violent anti-democratic action.
            That seems hard to argue with in my view, but either way it does not suggest he thinks history only started in 1969 and I am sure you and Gearóid know that perfectly well.
            There is a lot of flack aimed at MT for his debating style.
            It is a form of bullying.
            I don’t get it.
            He asks questions of other posters.
            Either ignore them or answer them. No-one is compelled to reply to him.

          • paddykool March 15, 2017 at 2:12 pm #

            Look …..I know what precedent means .I just thought it was essentially the wrong word to use in the context of what was said and what it was a commentary on. In other words how could the Provisional IRA campaign be a precedent to…the phrase … “The history of the state, including its foundation, provides plenty of precedents.” …..when it did not precede that state and actually didn’t exist until 1969. That is what Gearoid commented on .How does the PIRA campaign become a precedent to something that happened before it existed unless the logic dictates that nothing happened before 1969 and of course , we know that it did. He may have meant something entirely different but tthat is not what he said and he tends to be a stickler for the accuracy.

          • giordanobruno March 15, 2017 at 3:20 pm #

            paddy
            The quotation MT used from Jude referred to precedent within the history of the state not prior to it.
            So the PIRA campaign falls within it and he seemed to me to be suggesting that as an obvious example of violence being used in an anti democratic point.
            As I say it may be a bit of whataboutery on MT’s part but I think you could have argued the point instead of that convoluted stuff about precedent.
            His meaning was clear enough.

          • jessica March 15, 2017 at 3:38 pm #

            There is plenty about northern Ireland that is still anti democratic gio, but the PIRA is no longer one of them unlike the unionist paramilitaries, continuity republican groups and the british security forces who are still running agents in both.

          • paddykool March 15, 2017 at 3:50 pm #

            As for your commentary on MT’s behaviour, I sometimes wonder why I bother even commenting on it at all. This will be the very last time ,I think.You say there is a lot of flack aimed at his “debating style”.I’m absolutely sure I’m not alone in thinking that his response is something other than a either a “debate” or even a “style”.There is no debate .There is pedantry and nit-picking irrelevancy which encourages everyone else to respond in kind.In that respect and in this context ,this idea of a debate and a style is a bit of an oxymoron. His “style” ,or approach ,is sullen in that he does not actually converse in anything like a friendly or sociable way to anyone, so when he is questioned on this “style” or it is remarked upon , it is called “bullying” simply because he sucks any grace out of the equation.
            The last thing in the world I personally want to see is bullying, but I think in this case you might be grabbing the wrong end of the stick.His “style” comes across as simple trolling and at times, not quite adult behaviour at all. There is no semblance of humour to alleviate this notion either ,or if there is ,I and most other commentators , can’t pick it up on their antennae .Mostly, I think it’s simply that there are many opinionated people on site , exchanging views robustly, but they are usually doing it with at least a little civility and sometimes humour . They are not specifically on the attack, but sometimes engage in robust banter. That is generally understood. Maybe that is what is missing. MT might ask questions , but it is the manner in which he asks those questions that disrupts conversation and seem irrelevant to the main discourse that makes us nit -pick back. It’s as though he’s attempting to start an argument rather than a discussion , I think.That’s my opinion of it and that will be be last word ever on it .

  14. billy March 13, 2017 at 8:16 pm #

    will the now 18% and rising population not of irish descent be expecting to be allowed a vote i wonder.

  15. Brian Patterson March 14, 2017 at 11:36 am #

    Sorry to intrude on your obsession with immigrants Billy, but the percentage of Irish livng abroad differs little from the percentage of non-Irish living here. “Sauce for the goose” etc…