“You claim to be a majority,
Well You know that’s a lie!
You really are a minority,
On this Sweet Emerald Isle.”
-John Lennon (lyrics from his song “Bloody Sunday”).
There is an assumption advocated by some, including Unionist academics, which hypothesises that should Britain ever withdraw from the North, there would be untold Loyalist terrorism against the Catholic/Nationalist population – namely, the “Bloodbath theory of Northern Ireland.” Of course the people who propagate it are not neutral observers, many are Unionist politicians or the British media, which must be factored into any analyses. These intrigues want you to believe that in a doomsday scenario there could be some sort of sovereign, independent Ulster, that would become a Crown dominion in the Commonwealth; contrast this with how they are never done telling us how financially dependent we are on the Westminster Exchequer. So you can’t have it both ways, friends.
“Northern Ireland” would have neither the finances, resources, population or legitimacy, to exist without either British subvention or subsidies from the remaining Irish economy on most of the island. It would have no currency, no central bank, no trading relationships, no manufacturing and no financial services industry (in the absence of the first two things). If it had any of the essential ingredients required to facilitate a functioning independent state, then the Unionist leaders would have opted for a Unilateral Declaration of Independence (UDI) in the 1970s, when Stormont was abolished by the British government, or during the “betrayal” Anglo-Irish Agreement era – just like the rich apartheid Rhodesian government did in the 1960s.
But the question I’m putting to you, is whether the Loyalists would be able to perpetuate a campaign of Orange terrorism against the then Irish majority living on the island? And it doesn’t take a mathematical genius to work out that they would be outnumbered by around 400% of their demographic size. The other fact which needs to be articulated is that in the absence of the British state and its militarist factions, who would give them the hardware, money and cover to wage such a war against the 4/5s of the country? For unlike the IRA, they didn’t have a widespread network of guerrilla alliances with various anti-colonial struggles on this planet.
Now I certainly wouldn’t suggest that a British withdrawal could occur without any inch of protest or skirmish. But it would be nothing by way of collateral damage in comparison to the sea of blood in which the Irish people have been drowned from Britain’s colonial occupation commenced. The “Tory intrigues” (as Carson called them) among Unionism, certainly would not risk the luxuries and reassurances of middle class privilege to help wage a bloody and all-out civil war against a state they would want their economic interests to flourish in.
So any right-thinking person will refuse to buy into this idea that you must perpetuate a system of partition which has caused enormous bloodshed, in order to avoid threats of “supposed” bloodshed by people without even the means to facilitate it in the first place. I mean, can anyone seriously imagine Gregory Campbell up “in arms” as he once promised in such an event? David Ervine garnered that in such a scenario, Loyalist people should make peace with their Irish neighbours and get the best deal possible for their communities. Therefore, all that lies between the present and a future Irish Republic is pressing the British government to stop playing the “Orange card” and have the balls to call their bluff on the matter once and for all.


I have said it before. I think the only logical outcome now with regards to the increasing pressures from BREXIT, Economic collapse, demographic doomsday and the ever dwindling unionist vote, is that the British government take the ‘Hong Kong’ route to EIREXIT. Namely that an agreement is put in place for the withdrawal from the North East. I can see this taking a timescale of 25 years (a generation). We all know that demographic trends will deliver a UI sooner than that regardless (but possibly an unstable one). However, the ‘Hong Kong’ route would take the sting out of the tail for both Loyalists and Republicans. It could be sold as a compromise of sorts. In many ways this would be a deal between the UK and Europe as Irelands ‘sovereignty’ is in part Europe’s ‘Sovereignty’
No one wins but the people!
It would be hard for loyalists to ‘kick off’ on an event that is so far down the road that many of them probably wouldn’t see it. Republicans of the dissident variety would have the wind taken out of them and become a pointless irrelevance. The FG/FF/Lab Cartel could start to field candidates in the north east without the embarrassment of coming to the party late, at the point of unification they may even have substantial numbers of elected candidates in the councils and the assembly to ensure that the establishment is not rattled.
Loyalists would get to enjoy 25 years of a ‘safe union’. Politics here could develop on a normal left-right dynamic as the questions over the ‘Union’ have been put to bed. Party’s could then get to work on the various integration projects to align our economy, infrastructure and healthcare. Die-hards would have a generation to come to terms with it and/or plan for repatriation back to the motherland. By the time the date comes around many people previously of a unionist bent would be on-board and see the sense of unity.
Could the above EIREXIT be sold to the people in the north east?
The trouble with your scenario is that whilst many Loyalists probably won’t see reunification, conversely many Republicans probably won’t see it either.
Exactly its either a ‘win – win’ or ‘no win – no win’ scenario.
Politics isn’t about winning, its about making sure your opponent doesn’t!
I think the above scenario is now the only game in play. The GFA got us to this point, the BREXIT repercussions will take us to the next point. The establishment always needs a way to survive. This will be the best way to ensure that SF are neutered from their perspective and allows for them to maintain their head in the trough. The above scenario could also destroy any further increase in the SF mandate in the South which is why its a possible scenario in play and also give them (the Cartel) the upper hand to coordinate in the north east to further erode SF’s progress.
I would like to see a SF delivered ‘new agreed Ireland’. However, we know the reality that the establishment in both the UK and the South will not allow that to happen.
Ireland at peace can have no overall winners. The above is the only way that can happen.
It’s a very interesting suggestion and one that might actually work. However I think the 25yr countdown might be too long.
Michael, a generation is too long in my opinion. Unionism needs to stop dealing in lies and fallacious promises.The union with Britain is over bar the shouting, but we need the foundations in now for the new Ireland …l most certainly will not accept a simple transfer of sovereignty from Tory London to Tory Dublin. The wealth of the country must be enjoyed by all the citizens….not just the chosen few. Anyhow the pro British section of our population are astute enough to begin making new allegiances….survival is a great motivator. The talk of an unholy war unleashed by loyalists is just that…talk, their backup, their intelligence network, their safe passage, their freedom fom retribution and prosecution and most importantly , their precious Britism army will be gone…..they wouldn’t last a week in a futile and pointless exercise.
Personally I think its too long also but that’s the whole point of it. It takes the sting out of the tail for everyone.
Would the nationalist people accept it? Would unionism accept it?
A 50+1 UI delivered through a Unity Poll in say 4 / 5 years would create a lot of instability both beforehand and after. Remember that DUP and loyalism has a scorched earth policy (as well as flat earth). They will ensure that a 50+1 win will cause havoc through violence and Orange aggression.
A 25 year window would give them a win of sorts and could be sold to their base as a win. The same could be said for nationalism.
Unionisms primary enemies are not republicans anymore (they just don’t realise it yet), their enemies are now English nationalists looking to do what’s best for English national interests. Currently shelling out 6 – 10Bn (subvention depending on which unionist tooth fairy you believe) to a part of the UK that is not English nor wants to be English simply wont wash with the English electorate.
They pulled out of Europe to save 10Bn. How much again is that NI subvention………..?
Loyalists are smart enough to know that they cant have a ‘backlash’. They are too highly concentrated in the North East in Larne, Carrick, Ards etc… They are massively outnumbered and could be picked off so easily. They are sitting ducks and they know it.
The only thing that can save the union is Superman. But alas I haven’t seen him flying about…..
I agree with the majority of your sentiments Michael… I know it’s not in their nature but before the critical 50+1 is reached , Britain needs to make it abundantly clear that it is steadfastly adhering to the GFA….none of their usual perfidy and chicanery for which they are renown.They have a moral and legal duty to uphold that international agreement and that excuse for a government in Dublin must press them on that . Unionist politicians and Churchmen must also ,for once , be unequivocal about loyalist violence…. no more ”Duke of York” shenanigans…it must be nipped in the bud. In 1921 we had to endure and accept a gut-wrenching decision ,foisted on us without our consent , we must ensure that the approaching scenario is as painless as practical possible.
An interim power showering government for say 20 years but tied to Dublin instead of London would take the sting out of things.
25yrs,if anybody went with your plan it would take another 100yrs to deal with change.the deal was 50%plus 1.after any vote in favour it comes the next day.
I have always thought that should a the border ever be dissolved then the extremes of loyalism will mimic their hero lord Carson and raise a paramilitary force to usurp such a scenario. Partition was the biggest mistake ever perpetuated on this island. The border needs consigned to history as England’s biggest mistake in Ireland. This should result in an agreed Ireland whereby its people broadly agree what type of Ireland we have.
Historically the peoples of these British Isles are cousins through centuries of traversing the short distance between the two islands and integrating. We are all Britons (Not British in the context some would have us). We are Irish Briton, Welsh Briton etc.
There is not a surname in Ireland that is not common on our neighbouring island. And vice versa. The English conquest of Ireland and its evil consequences split the peoples of Ireland. A terrible deed by the English.
An agreed Ireland would need to have some sort of official relationship or connection to our neighbouring island to assuage unionist fears. Such a connection would marginalise those in loyalism who would revert to Carsonite measures of raising a paramilitary force.
Just over a hundred years ago the English failed to deal with the anti Home Rulers on this island , mainly based in heavily planted Ulster. They pandered to these sectarianly motivated people. (Home Rule is Rome Rule). If Home rule were granted the decades of death and strife that followed could have been avoided or greatly minimised. With the break up of the uk now only a matter of time it is the right time to start agreeing this “agreed” island. With NO borders.
I must disagree with at least 90% of your post Sean. The internationally binding agreement is for 50% + 1 and that is the end of the matter. The unionist people knew this when they signed up. All this talk about how we are going to keep the unionists onside is just so much hot air. A bit like having a discussion on how many angels can dance on the head of a pin. By the way Sean, where did you get the bit about ‘these British Isles’, I nearly choked on my cornflakes and thanks for letting me know that I am an Irish Briton, I would never have guessed it !!!
The unionists and loyalists were never democrats. They pretend to be . They are only democrats when they controll the democracy. As in the contrived statelet of NI.
They have no intention of honouring what they signed up to in past agreements with Nationalists.
They are supremacists. They have a skewed understanding of the concept of equality.
Having said that. We can’t suppress them into an arrangement that the majority of them will not accept. That would only garner tacit support for the extremists who would follow Carsons treasonous methods. Nationalists have been forced into such arrangements in the past.
The agreed Ireland must be on the premise that there is no border and an acknowledgement that we have blood links with our neighbours on the other isle of Britons. The people of this island need to be in control of our own affairs.
As, in the long run do the peoples of Wakes and Scotland.
We,’ve been told for years that only democracy and the will of the people can bring a UI. So, 50 +1 is democracy. It,s up to the British to let the Unionists know that the party is over. No UI after a democratic vote and Loyalist violence may be the least of the problems.
@ Sean mc Ivor “The border needs consigned to history as England’s biggest mistake in Ireland”.
@ Tiarnan “It,s up to the British to let the Unionists know that the party is over.”
if a Labour government under Jeremy Corbyn is elected to Westminster on June 8th we might just see the British letting the unionists know the party is over
https://eurofree3.wordpress.com/2017/05/21/corbyn-for-pm-its-a-great-british-thing/
Has anyone here considered that a 50+1 win could take at least a generation to get there, or maybe longer?
I personally believe that a border poll is winnable in the next couple of years (possibly right now). However, it would take a couple of years to arrange and then what if its lost…….. that’s another 7 years, then momentum could slip and other events take hold. Before you know it near 20 years have past and 2 possible failed polls.
A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush as they say!
I am certainly not advocating the removal of 50+1 as that’s what we signed up to in the GFA but the 50+1 is always goanna be a bet, and one that could take years for your numbers to come in. I am not a gambler but would have to think about the ‘Hong Kong’ deal.
I think a settlement will be imposed upon us similar to what I have suggested before we get into any border polls. The GFA was not a settlement but a stepping stone. BREXIT changes everything and now Europe have skin in the game, its no longer a fight between Nationalist and Unionists. This is UK vs Europe, their commitment recently to absorbing the north east into Europe was ‘setting the stage’ and sending the British a message that BREXIT will have a cost!
Well, at least ideas are being tossed about, if only from an ”Irish” perspective…… Where are the usual naysayers…. Anyhow ,Sean makes a valid point…..Britain is populated by millions of people of Irish descent…. , and they very much feature in the equation…..imposed starvation and a need to survive drove them to emigrate , there wasn’t a choice….and.partition was just another despicable millstone ,again forcing people out as both ”states ”were nefariously controlled by our psychotic neighbour……but today we have people of vision , positive people with a spring in our step…we.now have the opportunity to build the nation we dreamt about…… We can’t get it wrong !
Really enjoying all the interesting comments guys. They have made me even more optimistic.
I’m now classified as a ”pensioner” but I’ve more optimism presently than when my teenage years and exuberance said …enough is enough….. I paid a price , but nothing compared to others……we were left a legacy and an unprecedented opportunity…. We would be imbiciles to squander it……we must grab it with both hands but we must also be able to convince our pro-British neighbours that it’s also a golden opportunity for them….we have to carry them with us !
why?
I have always felt the six counties would shrink to the three counties. Then the one county. My own opinion is Brexit WILL advance Irish freedom because the English can’t even be bothered to pretend to care for the north. Partition was obscene on so many levels not least economic. The influence of the Protestant throne of course remains very strong, but if that house ever reverts back to Rome, watch Jeffrey and co. rediscover their radical Presbyterian roots pronto.