As I type, I’m listening to John O’Dowd on Good Morning Ulster . O’Dowd has been asked by Noel Thompson what the election of an abstentionist Sinn Féin MP would do. His response cut to the heart of the abstentionist debate/distraction: what have those MPs from here who take their seats in the House of Commons achieved ? Noel Thompson didn’t have to answer. Our seat-taking nationalist MPs have achieved the humiliation of swearing allegiance to Queen Elizabeth and in return been served a heaped dish of nothing.
On UTV and the BBC yesterday evening, both political reporters looked at the DUP-UUP efforts to arrive at an electoral arrangement and concluded with an identical statement: “This election will be a pact-free zone.” EH? The DUP and the UUP have agreed to “facilitate” each other in Fermanagh/South Tyrone and South Belfast but those aren’t pacts? Prize that cat off the ceiling, somebody.
To return to the real world. There are two seats which Sinn Féin can win if the SDLP stood aside. They are Fermanagh/South Tyrone and North Belfast. The SDLP have decided they’ll do what they can to prevent it happening.
There’s nothing new here. This has been the repeated position of the SDLP in election after election, and what has it done for them as a party? Their vote continues to decline, they’ve gone through new leaders like a dose of salts through Auntie Aggie, they’re so sturdily nationalist they are repeatedly propped up by unionist votes.
That’s because they appear to be motivated by one driving concern: damage the Shinners. It’s a hard thing to say but it’s even harder to see their actions as anything else. By running in Fermanagh/South Tyrone and in North Belfast, the SDLP show they’d prefer a unionist pro-Brexit MP before a Sinn Féin anti-Brexit MP.
George Bernard Shaw once said that you discover a man’s principles, not by listening to his words but by observing his actions. The SDLP may protest that they are anti-Brexit and pro- a reunited Ireland, but their refusal to stand aside and allow an anti-Brexit/pro-united Ireland candidate a clear run tells us what they really believe in.
Over the years, the SDLP have been quick to claim the moral high ground. In this election, they had a chance to do the right thing and ensure two more anti-Brexit, pro-united Ireland MPs. They bottled it.
Nothing about the SDLP surprises me. It’s quite likely the SDLP will loose South Belfast unless an arrangement with SF was agreed – which won’t be happening in the scheme of things. The SDLP could be literally shooting themselves in the foot and facilitating the continuation of their own downfall by refusing to enter into an arrangement with SF. With a recent surge in the Nationalist vote, with BREXIT opening up the United Ireland debate, surely Nationalist co-operation would seem wise and progressive at this stage. The SDLP like all those behind them who took the oath did so in hope, but in reality changed nothing. In fact they became part of the establishment but powerless. They rubbed shoulder to shoulder with those intent on bringing society to its knees. The SDLP remind me of the old Redmondite faction who gravelled and were willing to settle for the scraps on the floor as opposed to what was on offer at the table. A few questions I have never really had answered – what do the SDLP really stand for? Who do they represent? And what is their vision?
The SDLP could be literally shooting themselves in the foot … I certainly hope not.
I will answer your questions TheHist.
1.They stand for the “Queen”.
2.The represent Catholic business classes, who don’t like to rock the Unionist boat.
3. Vision is difficult when you are afraid to lift your head in case you annoy your hereditary superiors.
‘A few questions I have never really had answered – what do the SDLP really stand for? Who do they represent? And what is their vision?’
I think they should be renamed the DIM (Dog In the Manger) Party, as they know they cannot themselves succeed, but they will make sure their closest relatives will collapse in the gutter with them.
They claim to be nationalist (so they are not tarnished with the republican appellation), but their deliberate actions only guarantee success for unionism.
One can only imagine the shame and embarrassment they have brought to the great John Hume’s project!
Then why didn’t SF agree to the SDLP’s suggestion of independent anti Brexit candidates?
If it’s all about anti Brexit representation and not party political gain then this seemed perfectly reasonable.
I think everyone sees the SF pact suggestion for what it is which is political manoeuvring to maximise seats for themselves.
Nothing wrong with that BTW, I have no issue with pacts by anyone in a first past the post election but please don’t insult the electorates intelligence by trying and dress it up as something it’s not.
The SDLP will be used as the scapegoat by SF if they don’t win in F&ST and NB.
The SDLP appear to be slowly slipping into irrelevance now that all those old voters of long ago and far away seem to have changed into Sinn Fein voters.I doubt that many of those old voters are now casting for the DUP or the UUP. I suppose it is possible that some of them now vote for Alliance because Naomie Long can walk and talk at the same time , but I’d imagine the spill is minimal…and let’s face it Alliance like to see themselves as a secular , sensible unionist party unencumbered with any of that rooting ,tooting religion and Orange marching flummery from the Dark Ages when people believed in faeries…at bottom they are still a unionist party and you can’t be a nationalist and vote for a unionist party .You might also say you can’t be a nationalist and now vote for the SDLP in these radically changed times. it’s a pointless exercise going to Westminster now that even the UK is utterly divided. So the SDLP look as though they will gradually dissolve into nothingless and Sinn fein will soak up their remaining voters and become them entirely.The voters will tell the tale.Sinn Fein can gain little from sitting in the empty chambers of Westminster …indeed they gained little from sitting in the snake-pit of our own local “government” so I can’t see them wanting to rush back into that any time soon either. All they got was daily abuse .Meanwhile Arlene Foster and the DUP are already bullshitting their potential voters that this election will make a difference for them. They are telling them that this will get them “the biggest unionist party” back into local power. I can’t imagine why they might think that when it’s obvious that nationalism generally doesn’t really care whether or not there is any local representation at all…of any kind.It seems almost preferable to them to keep the damned thing closed and quiet for the foreseeable future and relegate everyone to the status of local councils.
Jude, the nuanced approach by BBC, UTV and RTE broadcasters and journalists to current ( never mind the past) various events here, diminishes their independence and integrity. For example,yesterday morning on Nolan show, stand-in Vinny repeatedly asked Anne Morgan, sister of Seamus Ruddy, regarding her heartfelt gratitude to those who provided the relevant information, and appeared to be attempting to get her to castigate and vilify the organisation (and information providers) responsible for her brother’s murder and seek prosecutions. But she deflected all implicit criticism and concentrated on her relief, comfort and solace at finding her brothers remains and at long last being able to return them home for a proper family Christian burial. ……. A noble and honourable woman.
Absolutely Jude, hope them come to my door this election, they bottled that piece of canvassing in the assembly elections held recently.
PS Jude has the commenting system changed again? I noticed that it says your comment is awaiting moderation again?
The source of this difficulty, Scott, is summed up in one word: Kevin. He accused me of censoring him, so I gave him a chance to withdraw the remark – several chances – and he didn’t. This meant I needed to see that his future comments were indeed blocked, which meant tinkering around with a system which, I confess, baffles me from time to time. It should be back to normal now. Nobody should be waiting for their comments to appear – they should go directly up. If they don’t, let me know. If your name is Kevin, on t’other hand, don’t bother.
Jude
Did Kevin not accept that it was a technical difficulty in his post here at
May 6, 2017 at 8:08 pm, on the Maskey/Carroll thread.
It is the differing opinions which make your site interesting so it would be a shame to lose him over a misunderstanding.
In my view.
Gio – I share some of your misgivings re Kevin. He’s clearly an intelligent guy, and he can engage in civilized argument when he chooses. But I made it abundantly clear to him that I would not accept his charge that I deliberately censored him and other people. That’s a lie. Had he withdrawn that accusation and admitted his error, fine – as you know, I’m prepared to entertain all sorts of views, even those who talk drivel (no names, no packdrill). But I will not have Kevin or anyone else claim that I am censoring people when I am not.
Jude
Its yours show,but in that comment he did seem to offer an apology at the end.
Now I will butt out.
No need to, gio. I never asked for an apology. I simply asked that he withdraw his claim that I was censoring his comments – he chose not to.
And you’re surprised,Jude, when people call them names? These two seats, in particular, will never go to the SDLP so why are they fighting them? So that people will know their policies? People do know their policies and that’s why they don’t vote for them. But to go over to the Mother of Parliaments and stand heads bowed to swear allegiance to the person who stands between them and their supposed objective of a re United Ireland – how much lower can you stoop? As their ‘leader’ says they are standing because Sinn Fein won’t even bother to take their seats if elected. What have they ever accomplished in Westminster – even in their own wee gnarled minds?
I think the SDLP’s position on pacts is being driven by their desire to keep their unionist voters on side in Foyle and South Down. Those votes could save and probably will save them seats.
Elsewhere most SDLP people will swap over to SF where it’s clear the SDLP haven’t a snowballs. Anyone that doesn’t was never going to vote SF, pact or no pact.
what I would am unclear about is what are the principles that prohibit the SDLP from agreeing a beneficial pact with SF………………surely if the Unionist community can reach an agreement (GFA) then it ill behoves the SDLP to stand in the way of nationalist progress. Their stance reeks of downright jealousy, plain and simple………….
They lost their way decades ago. Didn’t Austin Currie end up a FG er?
Like the Alliance ,the SDLP serve no useful purpose. In politics , if you’re middle of the road you’ll get knocked down and trampled on. Here you either want a re-united country or you’re happy being bullied by Britain….that’s the stark reality of it , sin é agus sin sin !The SDLP have never organised nationally , ie they’re a partitionist , mildly unionist , party and they’ll become obsolete shortly having no position to fill after re-unification. Going by the adage ” it’s an ill wind ” , standing in Belfast North and F &ST will accelerate their demise and thankfully politics on the nationalist side will be left to genuine Irish men and women who see more than the £ sign.
As a SF party member I have to say that in this instance I can’t really fault the SDLP because we will not reciprocate in South Belfast.
However I did note with some amusement that Daniel McCrossan, SDLP candidate in West Tyrone, has called on SF to pull out of that constituency. Despite SF having a +10,000 majority.
1. Abstention doesn’t matter because N. Ireland MPs have never achieved anything in Westminister and never will. ..!!
2. It is very important to maximise the Sin Fein vote because of Brexit and increased discussions on the possibility of an United Ireland ..!!
Naw, i am not convinced. I am going to vote Sinn Fein and hope they do well but it is as usual a sectarian head count ..!!!
They are constitutional nationalists , in someone else’s constitution .
Figure that one out.
They stand for showing their betters in Westminster that do are not the Shinners old Boy.
If they can’t get voted in then they can show nobody anything!
“The SDLP could be literally shooting themselves in the foot. . . . by refusing to enter into an arrangement with SF.” – TheHist (above).
Really? Literally? Painfully? Or just ironically? I always knew Hume and Mallon should have decommissioned those unreliable blunderbusses while the going was good and some kudos to be earned from their act of statesmanship. And if they do manage to “loose” South Belfast, will Alasdair be fit to be tied?
Jude,i have nothing but the greatest respect for you as a writer and commentator and i do agree with you on most of what you said.A question for you;What ever happened to ” I will not serve neither King nor Kaiser “.I am not well educated in the art of politics but i do remember when Sinn Fein were anti Nice treaty and now they want us to stay in Europe.Sorry two questions.What caused the about turn to remain within Europe and live by their rules?.We never were a nation to take to kindly to foreign rules being forced upon us so what has changed?.
I take your point, Marty. But I think the most obvious Master is the one who’s currently administering rule from Westminster. I agree the EU is in need of radical change but for the most part I think it’s desirable. Not as the great dominating the less great but as an association of equal states, regardless of size.
A recent poll showed some 88% of Irish people were in favour of staying in the EU – it would be kamikaze politics for an Irish political party hoping to be in government to adopt a leave stance.
Just look at how PBP are flip flopping like idiots now it’s clear to them people have been turned away by their brexit support during the referendum.
The exist to portray SF as “corner boys”.One of their staunch supporters once told me on her doorstep that “I know your father and mother,you should have been decent” (ie what are you doing associating with these people?)!
what do you think off prince charles visiting the fallen dead off 1916 s graves .the same graves his ancestor brits buried these men in .too comment on the above as an x sinn fein voter all we see today is john humes exact tactic s being used by sinn fein .too condemn a party as you or doing here is a bit off cop out excuse the punt when your party sits in stormont kissing the ass off loyalism
Ii was brought up in the fifties and sixties as a second class citizen I.e. irish Catholic under British rule. To claim that Sinn Fein sits in Stormont kissing the arse of loyalist is nonsense , you could say that about the SDLP sure , it’s all they have ever done.
The IRA fought and died to give us the GFA and everything we have now that we didn’t have pre 69. That stage of the road to UI is over but there would have been no GFA without it, elst we would have had every thing we have now , pre 69.
What Sinn Fein achieve ever day that they turn up at Stormont is simply that , the Croppies will never lie down ever again . This is reinforced every time they enter Stormont.
Fair play to the SDLP for not getting drawn into a straight sectarian fight.
Their suggestion of an independent candidate was a good one and if SF were genuine about wanting to unite anti Brexit voices they should have agreed to it.
John Finucane could well have fitted the bill..
But party politics trumps all else including principle.
Regarding abstention I do wonder how it will help as Brexit plays out.
The actual Brexit is a fait accompli so the idea seems to be pushing for some kind of special status.
This seems unlikely to me given that neither government has shown any interest in the idea.
But if it was to happen it would presumably require a vote in parliament.
A vote which SF would not be present for.
Sdlp have just picked 2 total no hopers for N Belfast and FST. Talk about lambs to the slaughter!
Regarding PK ‘s assertion that the SDLP is in terminal decline I do not disagree, but it is a very long goodbye. Colm Eastwood, Clare Hanna and Justin McNulty added a much needed infusion of youth into the moribund party and the growth of the SF in East Down, if steady, is excruciatingly slow.
Justin has polled well in S. Armagh, possibly at least partly due to (i) the Quinn murder and (ii) his GAA connection. Incidentally Justin hailed the result of the last election as ‘a great triumph for Nationalism”. Now a cynic might be tempted here to think that Justin (who incidentally is a really nice guy) was, by referring to “nationalism” as if it we’re a monolith, seeking to decant the overflow of SF’s electoral triumph into the SDLP’s somewhat meagrely filled tassie. So what has happened to this Nationalist monolith between the last election and now? If Michelle Gildernew fails to regain her seat in FermanaghS-Tyrone, will that be a defeat for pan-Nationalism, or a triumph for Colm an Baill Báin’s principled refuse to countenance sectarian pacts?
And if the former, whose fault will it be?
Why would a nationalist pact be sectarian?
I never suggested a Nationalist electoral pact was sectarian.Colm Eastwood did. So, Colm will it be a great victory for non- sectarianism if Orange zealot Tom Elliot takes Fermanagh-South Tyrone?