I had a good day yesterday. Wonderful weather in Dublin, pleasant and talkative people on the bus, streets heaving with tourists and young people. I met people I hadn’t seen in a while, I had loads of internet greetings from people I’ve never met but feel I know. I had telephoned birthday wishes from a range of people, including an 81-year-old who told me to start acting my age and at a 2-year-old who sang “Happy Birthday” down the telephone to me. Grand-daughters don’t come any sweeter.
Like most nationalists/republicans who can manage it, I get the hell out of the north over the Twelfth. Gail Walker of the Belfast Telegraph, I’m told, thinks the Twelfth’s a great occasion because it leaves Belfast’s streets free of people. Personally, I like seeing people on the street and spending their money. Here in Dublin the place is heaving with them. All ages, all colours, with the constant sight of cranes and sound of building in the background. Dublin has come a long way from the overgrown village I knew in the 1960s, and isn’t it bloody wonderful to see.
Two things marred my otherwise perfect day. The first was the online pictures of the , Martin McGuinness coffin on a bonfire along with the usual array of Sinn Féin election posters and tricolours. Word had clearly gone out that the DUP didn’t want to be made look any worse in British eyes than it already does , which allowed Mervyn Gibson on the evening news to burble about how it’d all been a very happy occasion, family fun, etc. No word of what had decorated various bonfires. Almost worse than the knuckle-dragging hatred of such actions was the failure of Arlene Foster or other DUP politicians to condemn such barbarity. No doubt fearful of alienating this core of their vote, Arlene and Co gave us guff about the need for unionist “not to fall into the republican trap”. Which was clever if deplorable, since it sort of shifted the blame, didn’t it? It was the fault of those damned trap-setting republicans that the coffin-mock-up and the posters of John Finucane and Michelle O’Neill got to decorate the bonfires. Nice one, guys.
The other slightly-saddening thing happened in Dublin Castle. I was resting in the shade of the big barracks square there, and overheard a Dublin guide explain Irish history to a group of tourists. He did it in a strictly-for-dummies way, scampering through the Norman invasion and Henry VIII, down to Flight of the Earls and An Gorta Mor (or ‘the Famine’ as he inaccurately called it). His three-minute talk wound up with “Then we had our revolutionary period against English rule from 1870 to 1922, which was when Ireland gained its independence.Whoo hoo!” He studied his group of listeners for a moment. “You’re all supposed to cheer at this point”.
Part of me had sympathy with the guy. I suspect his job isn’t the most highly paid, and he no doubt wanted to leave his audience with a happy Ireland ending. Which was what helped me stifle an impulse to approach the group and ask their guide “Why are you telling these people lies? Or is it jus that, like so many of your fellow Free Staters, you’d rather wish partition away?
But hey- the guy was trying to earn a crust. And I don’t like making people unhappy, at least on my birthday.
Unionist silence on the hate bonfires indicates they can’t be trusted to deliver – they will always pander to the mob, or the UDA as most people know them.
Belated Happy Birthday Jude Nice day yesterday in Belfast if you ignored the HATE.
Will these people never change?
Grma, Jim . And it’s difficult to answer your question with anything but No….
Happy birthday Jude keep up the good work
Grma, Jude. We Judes must stand shoulder to shoulder….
Jude raus 🙂
Working as usual yesterday but came across a couple of small local “feeder parades” in 2 villages. A couple of minutes of inconvenience but no hassel. I have to say a few of the participants even acknowledged me as they passed.However in a larger town further from home ,I encountered a “main” parade and my appearance in a work vehicle caused some glaring and very sullen looks.They would’nt have known me but obviously only an “uppity fenian” would have the cheek to venture amongst them and show he was’nt observing the “holiday”! It seems to be the smaller the gathering and where the marchers might actually know you,the less poisonous the atmosphere.
An insightful lesson learned over these last few days. Who controls who and who pulls the strings ? Bonfire building in Belfast , Carrick and Larne is strictly controlled by the UDA….different factions albeit , but still the UDA. The Orange Order , one of the most sectarian and reactionary organisations in the world , organize and control the parades. The DUP are presently sharing a double bed , in Westminster , with the Tories and have come under the scrutiny of the British press. Suddenly , with a few exceptions , the bonfires are almost reasonable . An injunction was put on four of them and placidly accepted by Unionist councillors. The Orange marches passed without disturbance , with even the infamous Ardoyne one meekly follows the Parades Commission determination…….are all these miraculous happenings interlinked…. you bet ! The DUP can control both the OO and the UDA at the click of their fingers and that surely is a revelation to those who would try and absolve Unionism from a sordid past !
1. Great commentary Jude, have to laugh at Gibson calling out SF for their ‘arrogance” . What can be more arrogant than an institution founded on hate and intolerance like the OO. The DUP will never change, DUP Paul will still get photo ops light the bonfires, they will blame everyone for attacks on their culture etc. Well their silence on the burning of the effigy of Martin McG etc , shows they have not moved an inch. They have their 1.5 billion( still loyal to the half crown) to wave in the faces of the people of the 6 counties. It won;t last forever when they are buying UVF flags storing pallets etc.
2. Eolach, good insight on how the bonfires are being coated with a layer of false respectability.
The DUP may be the biggest hypocrites of all time, Ulster Resistance Paisleys Third Force and the list goes on
Paul
“Well their silence (The DUP) on the burning of the effigy of Martin McG etc , shows they have not moved an inch. ”
Arlene Foster is reported in the Belfast Telegraph as condemning this. She has said it was wrong and it shouldn’t have happened.
No nationalist i know reads that dup propaganda rag, none that i know of, if she meant it she would have said it on the broadcast media, but who’s gonna see it tucked away somewhere on the inside pages probably! Dup/UDA are one and the same, always have been.
Fair enough your choice of newspaper is your personal preference of course Joe.
I’m simply correcting the inaccuracy that there hadn’t been any condemnation of that specific event, a disgusting one I might add, from the DUP. There quite clearly has been.
Just to add I didn’t find it tucked away on the inside pages as you suggest. I saw it on their Facebook page and have noticed the article retweeted on twitter by several political commentators. Alex Kane being one of them.
Did Arlene’s condemnation come before or after the event?
If she made her statement before the bonfire was lit and there had been the chance of the offence being removed, good for her.
If she made her statement after the bonfire was lit and it was too late to remove the offence, then the statement was just a sham!
“it is unfortunate when things like this happen” she said
two days after the event!.
http://www.belfastlive.co.uk/news/belfast-news/arlene-foster-condemns-martin-mcguinness-13325868
It took a while for her , it should have been immediate condemnation
Great piece Jude. With the DUP placing the blame for any heightened tensions firmly for Sinn Fein’s shoulders you would be led to believe Nationalists and Republicans don’t have access to Internet or TV or any kind of independent media.
Edwin Poots took to Twitter to finger Sinn Fein for “whipping up tensions” across our wee state. I’m pretty sure the effigy of the late Martin McGuinness, the religious statues, our national flag and hundreds of tons of rubber tyres were the instigators of that Mr Poots, which infact puts the blame squarely on the shoulders of Loyalists and their DUP/UDA masters.
There wasn’t a peep from anyone in any of the Unionists parties condemning any of these sectarian, hate filled shows of intimidation but what can you expect when the leader of the DUP met a paramilitary commander just days after a man was shot dead while holding his three year old son.
The more we see from the DUP lately the more we believe they can’t be trusted. We knew this from controversial issue like RHI and obviously the mar hing season. They claim to want Nationalist and Republican votes, they claim to be working for all members of Northern Irish society yet at this time every year they blame us and Sinn Fein for heightened tensions while they and their minions burn our national flag and pretty much defile anything remotely Nationalist or Irish. I think it’s about time we in this wee country, Protestants included, took a long hard look at our bed-fellows in the DUP, who they’re blatantly involved with and start sorting it out with a view to a shared future which Unionists parties in general obviously can’t see.
It’s a simple rule of thumb for Unionist politicians Mick.
If you’re not prepared to take responsibility just blame SF.
It works for just about anything.
Scott , she was mouthing a simple platitude….
“It is wrong and it shouldn’t have happened.
“In Fermanagh we don’t have any bonfires, it is unfortunate when things like this happen”.
Scott , that is a long way short of a condemnation …..it’s like saying ….” The weather could have been better” When the DUP leader forthrightly and honestly denounces all these vile sectarian and racist actions , from flag burning , effigy burning , poster burning etc etc then we may progress and see movement in this society…..but I’ll not suffocate myself from holding my breath !
Eolach
If you feel it wasn’t a genuine or robust enough condemnation thats your judgment call to make of course.
As I said above to Joe, I was challenging/correcting the falsehood that the DUP have said nothing on the subject.
I suspect Teresa May advised Arlene to say something, however, no word on the religious statues thrown on the fires over the years. Not genuine……………….
You’re quite right, Scott – I see online today that Arlene has condemned it, so fair play to her for that and I stand corrected. I do wish she hadn’t added the ‘It was wrong’ bit. That’s usually a signal that I don’t really condemn. To say the Martin McGuinness coffin on the bonfire was ‘wrong’ is a bit like saying attacking gay people is ‘wrong’. It’s a bit more than that.
Its all becoming a bit of a splitting hairs exercise here Jude. The act was wrong and Arlene Foster said it was just that. Everything else is just semantics to be honest.
Jude
Are you not against the politics of condemnation?
“Calls for condemnation are not so the general public may be enlightened. They are questions which have been asked in the hope of damaging the person being interrogated. Even worse, it is a political weapon masquerading as noble search for answers.”
Gio
A fair point.Obviously there are differing sets of rules at play here!-In passing,I note the Chairman of Omagh and Enniskillen Council has entered into controversy for failing to condemn the Poppy Day bombing in Enniskillen .Cllr Mc Cann was the piper at the funeral of MartinnMc Guinness.Must remember to look up what the former D f M said in relation to that particular outrage.
Scott , was it an unequivocal and emphatic denunciation of the illegal activities surrounding bonfires each and every year….would it give comfort to the McGuinness or Finucane family or anyone else that has become a target for their extreme and inexplicable hatred.
Scott,
There was a feeble condemnation from Arlene which surfaced after the fact!
Where was she to condemn and ask members of the loyalist community to remove these effigies before now?
My assumption would be that she waited until nobody would be paying attention to her to “condemn” it.
The streets might be busy but the peace and quiet online the last two days was certainly glorious!
I’d imagine that most grown-up adults would have real trouble condoning these bonfires , even on a health and safety basis.They are simp;y impossible structures in an impossible volotile modern environment which some day is going to catch and go ablaze big-time.It’s only a matter of timeuntil a street catches fire and families are made homeless or worse. I’d say that even unionists who have a tiny bit of imagination and brainpower would never be seen dead near them either and would probably discourage their children from going anywhere near them too. These aren’t the little bundles of scrappy twigs and old Christmas trees piled up as in times of yore at Halloween.These are carcinogenic towering hate -bombs of modern loyalism’s worst anti-social traits.This is a delusion which is being handed on from one poor dumb generation of losers to the next.There’ll be no bonfires in the nice middle-class areas.They are kept strictly for the plebs.
Let’s face it where do the “kiddies” who build them get the ideas at all that MMG should be placed in a coffin and burned .? Where do they get the” political” knowledge to hate the tricolour or even any Alliance or nationalist politicians? These little “kiddies ” are obviously being fed hatred from the day they were born or they wouldn’t be doing stuff like that. They wouldn’t “know” otherwise, so the hatred is being fed and used from each generation. MMG is the guy who shook hands with the Queen of England, after all and who attempted in every way he could to make politics work here.That’s a damn sight more than many unionist politicians have ever thought to do. So why the abuse from these “kiddies” who weren’t even born ten , fifteen or twenty years ago ?Who is filling their wee heads full of this stupidity and hatred?
I was saddened to see the Irish News carrying a full page advert in it’s pages a few days ago publicising the so called Orange Fest in Belfast yesterday. Bad enough the BBC going overboard with it’s coverage, but when a paper which claims to represent people from a Nationalist background takes the Orange shilling it’s especially disappointing.
The 12th is a sort of annual sectarian depot injection. The unionist community are prevented from developing a more inclusive mindset because in the middle of each year they are encouraged to participate in a massive exercise of intolerant triumphalism. Band practice, in preparation for next years event keeps things ticking over for the younger members of that group.
The media actively participate by normalising these displays of sectarianism, emphasising the “colour and pageantry”. The determination, by the media, to present an annual massive mobilisation by a sectarian organisation is disgusting. An organisation which exists to promote sectarian division should not be given airtime. Can you imagine the outcry in more civilised corners of the world if the KKK, Front National, or EDL were to have hours long live coverage of their annual jamboree?
I know people will argue that this is a cultural event, but any culture which is based on sectarian division and promotes religious and racial intolerance should be studied in history class, not on the streets.
So the general view seems to be that it was a fairly peaceful twelfth.
Despite the obvious disappointment that has caused for some I think it is a good thing.
Ardoyne passed quietly as did the parade past St Patricks. Good.
The bonfires remain a problem and the burning of Martin McGuinness’s image is shameful if predictable. But nobody died, as Jude would say.
Perhaps the police will feel better able to deal with the clear illegality of bonfires knowing the DUP will not want to be seen by the UK media (who are now watching them), as being in any way ambiguous on law and order.
Although much of it seems to be simply drunken young people acting daft as in the Holylands on St Patrick’s Day, the fact that it involves giant burning death traps in dangerous sites needs to be dealt with somehow.
So you wish to equate the high jinks of a few university students with the sectarian and racist moronic lo-life that annually burn effigies and national flags and more….It was the 19th anniversary of Quinn children …how does that fit into your inexcusable and thoughtless comparison
Eolach
Read what I said please.
Much of it is simply drunken young people acting daft. In other words the majority of bonfires are not a major problem beyond the health and safety issues.
Or is it your argument that every bonfire was burning effigies and flags?
I am sure the residents of the Holylands might disagree with your description of ‘high jinks’ of a few students by the way, but that is neither here nor there I suppose.
It is the few problem bonfires which need to be dealt with much more stringently.
Why bring the Quinn children into a discussion about bonfires ?
The blog is about the 12th July and not solely about the towering infernos of hate. The Quinn children’s murder was the result of this incessant hatred which is unlawfully allowed to manifest itself openly , year in year out. The compliant media blithely broadcasts this supercilious , sectarian intemperance as if it was a joyous carnival…..it’s absolutely not , it’s an open invitation for a section of this community to ram their intolerance and open contempt down our throats and anyone who doesn’t condemn , condones ! These people continually speak of culture ….how can culture suddenly begin on 1st July 1690 and if this is their best advertisement for that “culture” , then like the dinosaurs they mimic ,they are destined for the same fate.
Eolach
The part of my comment to which you replied was about bonfires.
Are you saying all bonfires were burning flags and effigies or not?
I have said they are manifestations of that inherent hatred which is undoubtedly passed from generation to generation……no child is born hating. It is a symptom of a section of society ill at ease with itself ….always fearful and uncertain. Unfortunately the people they elect to represent them , unscrupulously manipulate them , stirring the pot when a few extra votes are needed , whipping them into a frenzy , encouraging them into lawlessness and then disappearing like the proverbial thief in the night. Those same “politicians” know the future is undoubtedly in a United Ireland and I’m confident that they have already made provisions for that certainty.
Eolach
Yes indeed.
What should be done about bonfires do you think.?
All banned or tighten up on the problem ones?
I would have absolutely no problem with community run festivals and small well-supervised bonfires would add to the joviality of the occasion. If you remove the trappings of hate , turn the whole thing around into an occasion of hope and real celebrations ,within a short time the whole atmosphere of this place could be transformed….smile and the world smiles with you….I think everyone would be enthused and delighted , it may even build unimaginable bridges across the community and remove the scourge of the parasitic paramilitaries.
Eolach
That would be ideal yes. But what do we do about the bonfires as they are now?
My point (which you did not challenge) was that most of them as far as I know are not burning effigies and flags, so maybe it is not necessary to ban the lot.
The ones which cause problems need more stringent attention from council and/or police and of course community representatives.
That seems to me like a more realistic way forward than railing against the whole spectrum of 11th night celebrations.
The Unionist politicians must condemn, without reservation, the disgusting unlawful behaviour forthright and throw their weight 100% behind the forces of law and order……. only then will things change. If they are confident in their policies that shouldn’t be a problem but as I’ve said previously, we all know how they won’t.
Eolach
Ok but I am still trying to draw out how you feel about the majority of bonfires which do not have any effigies of flags on them.
Is it just the few you have issue with?
…. and I’m trying to explain that, whether the bonfire is peaceful or not, the ethos, at present, is based on the perceived domination of one over another, racial hatred and bigotry….. before we discuss normality that has to be addressed…….perhaps it is a case of many suffering because of the few but that has to be thrown at Unionist politicians…. the day for procrastination and prevarication is gone….. 50% of the population say so!
Eolach
50% of the population cannot stop the rest from activities reflecting their ethos can they?
Surely it makes more sense to address the pressing issue of the dangerous fires the criminal damage, the lack of insurance, the burning of flags and so on first.
These are concrete problems that can be solved. Changing the ethos is going to be a long hard struggle. Meanwhile the fires will burn.
As a general rule if there is problem behaviour caused by bad attitudes you have to deal with the behaviour first and try to change the attitudes afterwards.
And Gio , so we get to the crux…. without Unionism realising that things need to change drastically, …. that they need to change drastically, then we’re stuck in the same merry- go- round…… until, just around the next bend Nationalism has that deciding and very pertinent vote….. it will be used wisely, with the consideration of the whole community, for the benefit of the majority…. the knuckle draggers will be left far behind
Eolach
That seems a bit vague.
Are you saying we should not bother addressing the problem bonfires until after there has been a successful referendum?
I can’t help feeling you are speaking in generalities to avoid talking about the specific issue.
Far from generalizing , I’ve stated clearly the problem stems from within the Unionist community and the wish to resolve that must emanate from there…..and the magic wand is something which Unionism is averse and antipathetic to…..Equality. There is no need to explain the laughable , but pathetic hypocrisy endemic within Unionism and the Orange Order…..it’s there that the seeds of bitterness and hatred are sown. From the 1900’s , Unionism has been apprehensive and restive about it’s future to the extent that they , through force of arms , established their own little sectarian enclave , gerrymandered the boundaries and enacted Machiavellian laws to ensure domination….all that is gone now and the Nationalist/Republican community are , regardless of past injustices , prepared to move forward together…..but that hand of friendship will be withdrawn if it’s spurned for much longer….someone within the Unionist community must grasp the nettle of reality and take them out of the morass that they’re mentally bogged down in !
Eolach
I get it, you just want a bit of a moan. Fair enough.
If you want to talk about the actual bonfires get back to me.
I’m being neither condescending nor patronising but perhaps you haven’t the brainpower to comprehend and analyse what I said. All things surrounding the 12th are interconnected…..work it out!
Eolach
Dullard that I am I think I understand what you are saying.
But we cannot change the ethos behind these celebrations overnight.
I am asking you for about the 4th time for your thoughts on dealing with bonfires now today in 2017.
Anything?
Right ,in plain English…..The solution ( to bonfires , parades , respect etc ) must come from within the Unionist community….an imposed solution will engender the same hostility and violence as the flag flying scenario. When that community matures enough to respect itself and it’s long suffering people then perhaps they will embrace the future and realize that the past is a never returning memory…..this may take some time as they seem content , at the behest of the UDA etc to burn ,vandalise and destroy the very ghettos they live in.
Eolach
So in the meantime we as a society can do nothing but wring our hands?
You have no thoughts on policing, on licencing, on banning, or any other action to address the issues on the ground?
Fair enough.
Scott, you’re risible half-defence of Foster’s mealy mouthed condemnation demeans you, no matter how you dress it up. Disappointing to say the least. If someone like yourself, with liberal intuition cannot call out Foster’s insultingly feeble remarks for what they are, then what bloomin hope have we?
I’m making no such defence of anyone’s remarks Freddie. I’m not the DUP’s keeper. I’m simply correcting a inaccuracy that the DUP said nothing in regards to the incident.
My own opinion on the remarks made by Mrs Foster was that they were neither feeble nor robust. They were just remarks and I feel no need to analyse them word by word.
Overall though what she said was correct. It was wrong and it shouldn’t have happened. Fair play though if your not happy with that but I think it’s fair enough.
The term Free Stater is offensive.
The term free stater dates from the treaty split and describes those who accepted the creation of an “Irish free state” as compared to the Republic that was fought for.It is an accurate historical term for the forerunners of Fine Gael and would have been used with relish by FF before they became “respectable”. Now that FF and FG are indistinguishable in their partitionism ,it can be applied to both and is something I do when conversing with anti northern lickspittles. Its great to see them squirm when you call the gombeen 26 counties “the free state” but they havent even the guts to conradict you !
They are staters, end of. As far as the eleventh night goes, maybe Nationalists should ask for our day of venom, when we can burn pictures of the Queen and the Queen mother, maybe wee prince George for good measure? Of course it would not happen. The best thing anyone can say about the bonfire Kkkulture is that it brings out the worst in people.
We talk about the orange order and their parades like they are some gentleman’s outing, they aren’t.
The orange order has over its very long history has been about one thing, Protestant supremacy. Of the forced, violent kind that is. This organisation has been responsible for many murders, for ill policies directed at the malaise of their Catholic neighbours, for stirring tension on a yearly basis, and for harbouring guns, paramilitaries, and flouting the law – always. Mostly because until recently they were the law.
The orange order need to be made responsible for all the things they deny responsibility for and their marches need curbed and reduced in number. In short they need the laws that govern everyone else to be applied to them.
Hoisting flags where I please, lighting bonfires, and on street drinking are 3 things that I would get arrested for should I decide right now to go outside and indulge in. I would love to see someone with the right money challenge any of these laws since 2 days a year, as stated by Sinn Fein, are days of lawlessness. Only for the orange though as St Patricks day recently has become an enforced no drinking event in the Holylands. And also police do collect bonfire materials as I saw in a pic yesterday as a jeep removed wooden pallets from some youngsters in west Belfast. Its starting to smell like the RUC at the PSNI.
When your ‘orangefest’ posters’ biggest attraction is that the shops are open then something isn’t right. When tourists are advised to stay in town and watch the street performers, who produce nothing related to the orange order’s traditions, it can only be because tourists are not welcome to follow the parades to the field.
Its is both sunny day out and a hate fest. The OO wash their hands off the bad behaviour, and I’m being super mild here. The media don’t report it and instead stream live to the poor suckers that pay their TV license. Where was the reporting of the famine song, yet again being played at Short Strand?
Nice that it was quiet. And if the OO are stating we should build on that then yes we should, referring to Ardoyne in particular. How about no return parades at all? Just one morning and then all back to normal for everyone else other than the so called half a million people (seriously?) who attend these things. I know the 55 million (yes, this is the number the OO study did on projected revenue for this day) being spent on chippy vans and offies might only be 30 million or less, but hey I’m sure 20 million is a small price to pay.
Arlene condemns the burning of an effigy of Martin McGuinnrss.
Did Martin ever condemn the burning of actual real people on numerous occasions by his organisation, on some occasions carried out lerslnlt8by himself?
Like Arlene, he condemned his enemies, all part of the propaganda war. Plenty of innocent people were slaughtered by Arlene’s military heroes so no use trying to take the moral high ground.