Here’s Martin McGuinness:
“And if that means working with people who were former paramilitaries and who might even be associated with the UDA – as in the allegation that has been made in the course of recent times – but who are making a positive contribution, and who are not involved in violence or criminality of any description, then I think it’s very important that we do that.”
You can see why the Deputy First Minister would say that: he’s a former paramilitary himself and has done a great deal – probably more than any other single person – to “make a positive contribution”. He can hardly condemn Dee Stitt because he has a past.
But there’s a bit in the Deputy First Minister’s statement where he speaks of people who “might even be associated with the UDA”. That’s interesting. I’m assuming “associated with” is his polite way of saying “in”. And I’d say he’s right: you could be in the UDA but you might still be doing very positive work for your community.
But his statement doesn’t address a core question: should the UDA be in existence at all, nearly twenty years after the Good Friday Agreement? The answer is, of course, they shouldn’t. Then why are they?
That’s tricky. The vogue phrase at the moment is “transitioning”. The members of the UDA need help in “transitioning” from paramilitarism to peace. Presumably they’ll also need help in transitioning to decommissioning. Or put it another way: we want money, lots of money, before we’ll begin to deconstruct our organisation. But don’t worry – we’ll use the money wisely. Meanwhile, be patient while we transition.
A darlin’ word, transition. I must remember it next time I’m caught speeding.
Perhaps it’s because the British government took so long to declare the UDA an illegal organisation that politicians can calmly accept the continued existence of the UDA. We’re told the UDA is heavily involved in drug-dealing, among other criminal activities. So why don’t the police arrest them, and why don’t the Executive demand that people in the UDA are arrested and charged? After all, the police never had any compunction about arresting republican paramilitaries, with or without proof of wrong-doing.
Maybe it’s because the Executive and the PSNI believe that moving against the UDA would make a bad situation worse. They may be right. But things have come to a pretty pass when the Speaker in Stormont can deflect questions about Charter NI, the CEO of which is one Dee Stitt, who every journalist I know alleges is a UDA commander. And no, Robin, you don’t just apologise yourself out of something like that, the way you might do if you’d involuntarily burped or farted.
Eighteen years on from the GFA, the old dictum still holds: all paramilitaries are equal, but some (aka loyalist) paramilitaries are more equal than others.
“Every journalist I know” thinks Gerry Adams ordered countless murders and covered up for his child raping brother. Hopefully Dee and Gerry will both get what is coming to them.
jb – After thinking about it, I’m prepared to let this go up, even though it involves unsupported statements that verge on libel. This is not the first time you’ve sailed close to the wind. Either leave this kind of thing out or I’ll leave your comments out.
Jude – I am playing devil’s advocate, here. Perhaps unsurprisingly from a Republican website, you cried foul when Gerry Adams was arrested and demanded “evidence”. Shouldn’t you demand the same for Dee? (Not that I am standing up for him – I am sure the journalists are right…just as you supposed they were wrong about Gerry).
It also gives rise to another observation about this blog.
A lot of contributors defend the actions of the PIRA. I can’t think of one contributor who has sought to defend the actions of the UDA/UVF/UFF etc….
Come to think of it, this could be said of the electorate. Political parties that support loyalist paramilitaries receive hardly any support in the Unionist community. Yet Sinn Fein, brimming with terrorist criminals to the highest echelons of its structure is the largest party in the nationalist / republican community.
As George Orwell said: “A people that elect corrupt politicians are not victims: they are accomplices”.
So back to my question from yesterday: do you think that those corrupt men and women who murdered, extorted, beat and threatened in the name of the IRA should be brought to justice?
The DUP , UUP and PUP among others were hand in glove with loyalist paramilitaries, ie The THird Force Ulster vanguard etc. DUP is the largest unionist party, they get plenty of support from the unionist community. Yours is another attempt to portray the troubles in unionist/ good and republican bad terms. Didn’t the previous two first ministers sponsor the third force, invade Clontibret among others
The unionist politicians were in the loyalist paramilitaries, they marched with them, they helped arm them. Actually, the north eastern statelet was set up by paramilitaries like Carson.
Joe mo chara, you havnt been paying attention. The unionist terror groups are ‘useful idiots’ for some, so much so that they don’t have to ‘defend’ their actions. But there are plenty on here who will steadfastly ‘defend’ the actions of those other terrorists who run the British armed forces.
You know a high calibre of journalist. Let me guess. Sunday World,Sun, Daily Mirror,Sunday Times, Daily Express,etc etc.
““Every journalist I know” thinks Gerry Adams ordered countless murders and covered up for his child raping brother. Hopefully Dee and Gerry will both get what is coming to them”
Then why haven’t they took any evidence they have to the PSNI?…..Last time I looked Gerry Adams was in Court for IRA membership and was acquitted. He was arrested and questioned about Jean McConvilles death and burial but yet Adams lawyer said that the PSNI didn’t offer one single scrap of evidence against Adams….hence they released him without charge. Adams Lawyer was puzzled why they even arrested him at all. Adams called the arrest political and an attempt to damage SF in upcoming elections, which it failed to do.
Look we’ve helped organise and build a community centre………but we’re still gonna control drugs in that community.
All very Escobar-ish
“All very Escobar-ish”
You’ll be flattering the UDA by saying that Michael.
Being a natural born conspiracy theorist, my belief is that we know there was collusion between the security forces and some paramilitaries. Is it possible that due to this relationship that the British government are reluctant to “arrest and charge” the likes of Mr Stitt. Who knows what will emerge from that particular can of worms. The old saying “keep your friends close but keep your enemies closer” rings true when you are dealing with the BG & Loyalists in general.
Of course the police do not want to rock the boat in this situation. We all know how that works already .If the cops go into an area and arrest someone like Dee Stitt, suddenly this “pariah in the community” becomes a local hero and everyone gets up at arms and begin to instigate civil unrest.They’ll draw the cops in for a little recreational rioting ….camp out at some roundabout and all hell will break loose. Suddenly the DUP will be up at arms about the heavy-handedness of the PSNI and unionist politicians will be rushing to defend the perpetrators.
We already know that Arlene wants to keep the UDA and its supporters in her handbag ,so she’ll not do anything about Dee Stitt either. Let us all face a few facts here. like or loathe the republican movement all you like , but accept that ,for it, there was a cohesive political movement of some skill and intelligence, which managed to get a political party into government. That is no mean feat …and they only were able to do it successfully when they gave up the whole idea of “armed struggle”. It was only then that they got real public support .It’s undeniable that a majority of then SDLP voters marked their ticket for the first time.They wouldl not have done that otherwise.
We can talk all day about their past and their connections will armed violence but that is some twenty years ago . You might say that it is a complete generation ago.
On the other hand the UDA and loyalist terrorism never changed and is still a very real fact of life that has assumed a fearful criminal presence instead of any real tactile political clout . You can argue all you like about that but the likes of Dee Stitt have not got the political savvy or wit to do what Sinn Fein did . Personally ,i think that Sinn Fein have been stymied at present and are in such a balance of power that they have been neutered because they cannot make decisions without bringing the DUP with them. it’s a very odd kind of holding-state for any government.
If people actually voted for UDA- connected candidates it would drain the DUP of some of its support and in doing so make Sinn Fein all the stronger by splitting the unionist vote again. From that we can deduce that if the UDA followers vote for anyone , they are voting for the DUP and of course, that is what the DUP wants.Therefore the DUP are still in the untenable position of being in bed with unreconstructed gangsters.Everyone knows this. The UDA has had twenty years now to disband and give up their weapons . The so-called “anti-IRA “which they used to sell themselves as , is no longer needed by any notion, because the IRA is not bombing buildings or attempting to shoot soldiers or policemen, so what are they good for? Why do they keep illegal weapons? Why do they appear to be allowed to extort , push drugs and prostitution to make money for themselvesand still be handed millions of public money to pay some “CEO” who under any rules of employment would never get a job as a Clerical Assistant anywhere else? There’s no point in arguing that the man has previous experience for the job other than he’s managed huge sums of stolen or illegal money in the past.Somehow and some time in the near future, gangsterism will have to be tackled and we’ll all have to agree that it is a good thing to do this. Both the politicians and the police will need to be asked to take the gloves off and do the job that we are all paying them to do. In Columbia Pablo Escobar ran the biggest drug- running cartel on the planet and had political aspirations too , but eventually he had to be taken down even though he threatened and indeed created mayhem with his bombing and killing while presenting himself as” a man of the people”. These people like Stitt are small-fry by comparison.
While I hate the political blind eye being turned on the UDA – from both the DUP & SF, the real failure lies firmly with the PSNI.
The PSNI have the duty to tackle this organisation yet continually make stupid comments about needing community support. Did the FBI have community support when they took down the mafia or Bulger gang ? It was done through something called police work which seems something that the PSNI is either incapable of doing or don’t want to do.
I would add that after years of political squabbling over the introduction of the NCA, they seem just as useless and spineless as the PSNI in tackling paramilitaries.
“they seem just as useless and spineless as the PSNI in tackling paramilitaries.”
Cal, I was reading Brian Feeney’s article in the Irish News this week where he says “Nationalist Silence is a Disgrace” in reference to the low number of Catholics in the PSNI, especially in the senior ranks, and how SF/SDLP are silent on this.
Brian says that the PSNI have been recruiting more and more ex-RUC, people who were given large sums of money to leave RUC so the new police force would be truly new and cross community.
The truth is these ex-RUC people have a hand in the PSNI and, as Brian points out, are even in charge of investigating collusion between the RUC and Unionist paramilitaries. They were the ones behind Gerry Adams arrest a few years ago. They even helped Unionist politicians stop the 50/50 recruitment into the PSNI, something which Unionist politicians still oppose today. As Brian says: “in 10 years time we’re going to be living in a Catholic majority state that has an overwhelmingly Protestant police force”. I would say that’s the situation today, not in 10 years. Yet we live in the year 2016, not 1916…..
The truth is the PSNI is far from brand new and cross community. There are RUC types still in the PSNI that shouldn’t even be there, indeed were paid to leave. They have to be removed. Our police force should reflect our society, it shouldn’t have a 70% Protestant population, it should be at most 48% Protestant and at most 45% Catholic at present. That’s based on the 2011 census.
maybe keeping the paramilitaries in the headlines they think it will divert peoples attention away from the dup/sf cuts that they are planning to appease their british paymasters.the finance minister has today called for a rates rise on homes,toll roads suggested by another,not to mention benefits to the disabled.clawing a few million of joe public will pay the bill for the uda of course.
Dana Lyons was the name which came to mind, Esteemed Blogmeister, on reading the typical logic-logged lines of today’s blog.
Or more particularly it was Dana Lyons’ signature tune of no little significance which he (yes, dear, he) wrote and recorded in the mid-Nineties, about the day before yesterday of the Good Friday Agreement: D’s song became a world-wide Stitt, oops, hit.
That was the masterpiece of, erm, mood music:
-Cows have guns.
There is such an Orwellian ring to the lyrics that old George himself would have approooved.
-Fat and docile, big and dumb
They look so stupid
They aren’t much fun
Cows aren’t fun.
And It gets even butter and better:
-The great cow guru hid in the forest
Read books with great zeal
He loved Che Guevara
A revolutionary veal
Cow Tse Tongue.
It is not known if country singer T-Bone Burnette has recorded this baroque folk song but the case might well be made that he oughter:
-The guru mooed we must fight
Escape or we’ll die
Cows gathered around
‘Cause the steaks were so high
Bad cow pun.
So, how did the Pan-Global Police equivalent of the PSNI react?
-Sixty police cars
Were piled up in a heap
Covered in cow pies
Covered up deep
Mad cow dung.
The current up, up and away of the UDA is what grounded one to lending an inner ear to ‘Cow have Guns’. With the inevitable downward trajectory (a daarlin’ word, Joxer) deep into the dairy land of the Golden Vale of which, erm, Limerick is the rale capital:
PULL the UDA one.
There is a cash-cow in a roman a clef
Whose ref is so blind, dumb and deaf
She’s got a gun?
Pull the UDA one
Or we’ll effin off ye with the UFF !
To conclude: time to stop, time to plop.
Trump supporter Billy aghast that millionaires might have to pay higher rates!
charity shops raising money for cancer and the like are also on the list,you trying to brush it under the carpet wont change that.supporting taking money from charity shops while handing the uda money is a new low.
‘A positive contribution’!
The dogs in the street have been told that organisations like Charter 21 do actually create some jobs, but those lucky employees make a ‘positive contribution’ by way of a levy to the UDA.
On the reluctance of the PSNI to take action against the UDA and UVF, it is possibly understandable, as quite a few police personnel chose to live in loyalist areas thinking it was the safer option for them.
But that means to take such action they would be arresting their friends and neighbours – not really a recipe for a happy family life!
But on the other hand, if that particular boil is not lanced, it means that we will never be rid of paramilitaries, and there can never be true peace and justice – ever!
“But on the other hand, if that particular boil is not lanced, it means that we will never be rid of paramilitaries, and there can never be true peace and justice – ever”
The British Government/PSNI know who all the UDA/UVF leaders are Sherdy, they worked together for years.
I remember showing Danny Morrison a report where out of 300 UDA members questioned by the authorities that 297 were working for the British State in some way. That’s literally 99%.
Danny’s reply was: “I’m surprised it wasn’t more….”
The UVF/UDA are being allowed to exist.
The UDA/UVF are not ‘allowed’ to exist – they are paid by the British government to exist!
Shouldn`t he be in the U. DEE EH??!!
If someone were to join a dissident republican group tomorrow they would be arrested on the spot. But if your a UDA member your given a job, a big salary and a blind eye turned to your drug dealing, intimidation and other criminal activities. There was always a huge difference in how the British Government approached Republicans and Unionists and its still the case today. Its so bad even genuine unionist community workers fear going to the PSNI because they believe word will get back to the UDA/UVF. In fact one such community worker even said an alleged UVF Commander (Winkie Irvine) was on the Policing Board and going to the PSNI now was like going to the UVF.
I can understand why Martin McGuinness said what he said but the truth is he’s talking nonsense. What “positive contribution” has the UDA made? They are still drug dealing, racketeering, intimidating, beating and even shooting people. I’m talking about in the past few years, not 20 years ago. How many people from the Unionist community are in their graves today because they overdosed on drugs sold by the UDA? How many businesses have left Unionist areas or feared setting up a unit because of UDA racketeering? Just last month a young man from Bangor committed suicide by throwing himself onto the motorway just beside Divis Tower. He was homeless because he feared returning home due to owing the UDA drug money. The UDA was obviously looking for him. Is that the “positive contribution” the UDA has to make?….
You can not compare the UDA and PIRA. One is a criminal gang, the other is a proper paramilitary. I will post a link to the article where British files show the British Army classed Unionist groups as “little more than a collection of gangsters” and the PIRA as “a professional, skilled, disciplined force”. The PIRA left the stage after a political settlement was reached. They cant be engaged in any criminality because they aren’t active. The UDA/UVF on the other hand are still very active despite nearly 20 years passing since the Good Friday Agreement. They are not political groups, they are criminal groups. They are still recruiting young people and even Dee Stitt himself boasted that a band (same bands that get funds from Stormont?…) was North Down’s “Homeland Security”. In other words they are ready to shoot and murder Catholics if they deem it necessary. Yet this same Dee Stitt is getting a tax paid salary instead of being put in prison.
The UDA/UVF haven’t moved on and have no intention to. To class them as political is ridiculous, they moved away from politics as soon as they realized that they would have to give up criminality. Martin McGuinness knows better than me, he knows full well these groups have nothing positive to contribute, instead McGuinness should be demanding the UDA/UVF disband and the PSNI to make arrests like they would do to any dissident Republican. If Sinn Fein aren’t going to call for this, then who will? because it certainly wont be the DUP or UUP…..
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/6276416.stm
No.