I’ve had it up to here!
“It’s the BIGGEST SHOW IN THE COUNTRY!” the radio fairly bellows out, propagandising, as it does ,the lunacy that either Belfast or possibly Norneverland is a real country. Okay , it’s Radio Ulster banging its chest while promoting the Nolan Show in its jingling trailer..Maybe they want to hit a chord with the public. Maybe they want to scream out the popularity of the show’s host.
I don’t necessarily blame Mr Nolan for any of this false premise.Someone , somewhere in the bowels of Our Local British Broadcasting Corporation obviously thought it was a good idea and the jingle was chucked together much like all those other local programmes and awful provincial advertisments are cobbled together.They’re all trying to maintain that illusory “common-touch” and appeal across the board . It also helps explain why something like Hugo Duncan’s radio show, later in the day, has maintained its popularity. Am I alone in hating his constant blethering ….”You will, you will , you will!!” When I hear that, I want to throw the radio through the wall . The moment it comes on , to save myself the expense, I switch over immediately to Radio 4 or play some music. I’m not sayin g that either Mr Nolan or Mr Duncan are not laudable and wonderful human beings and thoroughly worthy of their wedded radio positions, roots growing from their arses as they sit snugly in their Radio Ulster chairs , obviously thoroughly capturing the demotic country mood. Someone , or several thousand “someones” ,obviously loves them dearly and they’ll probably be there until they die and are possibly embalmed and propped up in the studio. Sometimes a genuinely eccentric choice of personality slips through quality control at the gates of the BBC . Someone like the late Gerry Anderson breeched the defenses and allowed a gentle but wry and comic surrealism to enter the Ulster airwaves.He also had a cosmopolitan grasp of a variety of musical genres. He managed somehow to connect to all of us without resorting to infantilism. He is now sorely missed and very probably so unique as to be irreplaceable.
Anyway …back to that divisive trailer….”THE BIGGEST SHOW IN THE COUNTRY!!”
Let’s get this one little piece of propaganda straightened out once and for all.What are we talking about here ? Surely not the thoroughly imaginary country of Norneverland , lying some leagues west of Lilliput? …No ? Then mayhaps it’s under the bubble-dome that encompasses the City of Belfast. Everything outside of that glassy dome is Out There and generally unknown to the cloistered inhabitants.
Maybe it applies to the whole country of Ireland. Does the radio signal and internet link-up stretch as far as Bantry Bay or Macroom. Are the denizens of Ennistimon and Dungarven avidly hanging on to the words of Stephen Nolan every morning at nine ,as his words of wisdom cover the land from one end of the country to the other ? Is he really “THE BIGGEST SHOW IN THE COUNTRY!”… or is he the greatest show in the countryside? Maybe he’s the BIGGEST SHOW IN NORTHERN IRELAND !”…but when did that become a country?
I feel that the BBC might just be guilty of falsehoods here.Many might have a differing view but although the area of the six counties of Northern Ireland have been referred to as “The Province ” in the past , I’m sure many would have great difficulty with the idea of this part of Ireland being referred to as a “country”. You may as well call Antrim a country.
Then again again , much as I love the quality of many programmes emanating from the BBC, I am struck by the fact that we may all be victims of a none too subtle form of brainwashing to make us believe that fantasy is, indeed , reality .
Can someone explain to me why Northern Ireland isn’t a country? One of the four countries that make up the United Kingdom as far as I know.
As for the BBC brainwashing Harry, could it maybe be that your just paranoid…….
Paranoid…..moi?
Scott…here’s the kind of thing you can find in the blackest corners of the Dark Web….You might enjoy this….
“Owing in part to the way in which the United Kingdom, and Northern Ireland, came into being, there is no legally defined term to describe what Northern Ireland ‘is’. There is also no uniform or guiding way to refer to Northern Ireland amongst the agencies of the UK government. For example, the websites of the Office of the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom] and the UK Statistics Authority describe the United Kingdom as being made up of four countries, one of these being Northern Ireland..Other pages on the same websites refer to Northern Ireland specifically as a “province” as do publications of the UK Statistics Authority…The website of the Northern Ireland Statistics and Research Agency also refers to Northern Ireland as being a province as does the website of the Office of Public Sector Information and other agencies within Northern Ireland. Publications of HM Treasury and the Department of Finance and Personnel of the Northern Ireland Executive, on the other hand, describe Northern Ireland as being a “region of the UK”. The UK’s submission to the 2007 United Nations Conference on the Standardization of Geographical Names defines the UK as being made up of two countries (England and Scotland), one principality (Wales) and one province (Northern Ireland).”
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Countries_of_the_United_Kingdom
Ok so not being smart but I’m genuine interested in this. Your quote there was kinda contradicting since different agencies refer differently
I can accept that legally the answer could simply be like lots of things in Ireland, it’s complicated
For all practical reasons and since we make our own laws, have a border, our own assembly (all within the framework of a UK I admit) is Northern Ireland a de facto country?
“For all practical reasons and since we make our own laws, have a border, our own assembly (all within the framework of a UK I admit) is Northern Ireland a de facto country?”
That would depend on what criteria you apply to what is a country.
If it is simply a group of people living together and run by another countries parliament, then I suppose yes, that definition country could be applied.
If you as I do, consider a country to be a sovereign nation which elects its own parliament and has total control over its own people, its own borders and is acknowledged by the international community as such, and with its own financial sector to generate wealth through bond investments and trade agreements with the ability to borrow etc… then it would be impossible for northern Ireland to be a country with only 6 counties.
9 would be the absolute minimum with a chance of pulling it off but a 32 county country if we could agree as one people, a way of making it work would offer the best solution for all of our people.
It is not about wanting to punish protestants at all. Unionism frustrates nationalism with its arrogance and put downs.
What unionism really fears is that by talking about a united Ireland, they fear a majority of the people within the unionist community would realise there is nothing to fear from it and would actually desire it.
The UK refers to it as a polity so there is a defined legal terminology.
Again, country has different criteria and points of view.
The real stumbling block is that a majority of the people here do not see it as a country in the true sense anyway.
I see Ireland as a single country, MT sees the UK as a single country with NI being a devolved part of that country.
How do you see it Scott?
Surely the sites which refer to NI as a ‘province’ haven’t got it right either.
Ireland has four provinces – Ulster, Munster, Leinster and Connaught – so that leaves NI out in the cold as a province!
Another good point Sherdy …Ulster has more than six counties…hasn’t it?
A county becomes a county when some one says it is so e.g. Antrim, same with provinces, remember Ireland used to have 5 provinces. Until someone said so.
“A county becomes a county when some one says it is so e.g. Antrim, same with provinces, remember Ireland used to have 5 provinces. Until someone said so.”
It had 5 provinces but was always one country.
The people can say what they like, but unless it is recognised internationally, it is not a country.
Is north Cyprus a separate country because the people there say it is?
Internationally, Cyprus is recognised as one country.
Ireland as the whole island is recognised internationally as one country with separate jurisdictions just like Cyprus is and they have declared a separate country which we have not.
It is a province of the UK
““Owing in part to the way in which the United Kingdom, and Northern Ireland, came into being, there is no legally defined term to describe what Northern Ireland ‘is’. ”
Ireland was annexed by Henry II after one of the feuding kings in Ireland was foolish enough to ask him for help.
Since then, it was ruled in various ways by successive English rulers.
Constantly Ireland has risen up against this foreign rule and after the 1798 rebellion, in 1801 the personal union was changed and the act of union was changed to the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Ireland. This was more to do with the relationship between France which had become a republic which Ireland wanted to follow.
This did not stop the desire for irish freedom and the war of independence was inevitable. The English people demanded the end of this war and to sort out the relationship with Ireland once and for all, which England listened to.
They genuinely tried to release Ireland I believe but did not have the courage or interest to stand up to unionism in Ireland and unfortunately the same stubbornness and refusal from that section of our people to reconcile with the people of this island in favour of a relationship with the other island which is imaginary, and only partial independence was granted.
Protestants were never treated badly in the free state and the decline in numbers was not related to any pressure applied but a natural consequence of dividing the country.
The same cannot be said for Catholics in the newly partitioned province of Ulster.
The act of union was changed to United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland as only 6 counties of our country now remained.
This does not make it a country however, what I would call it is a travesty.
“If it is simply a group of people living together and run by another countries parliament, then I suppose yes, that definition country could be applied.”
The bit your leaving out here Jessica is that group of people (Northern Ireland) willingly accept the westminister parliament along with there devolved goverment. How I know that the majority still accept this arrangement is that nationalists who want to change this arrangement only received 40 out of 108 Stormont seats. I accept Northern Ireland as a country with a devolved assembly and some powers also residing with Westminister which is not another countries parliament but MY parliament also.
As for the whole we were invaded 300 odd years ago historical grievances rant………. It’s 2016 time to think about the future.
“The bit your leaving out here Jessica is that group of people (Northern Ireland) willingly accept the westminister parliament along with there devolved goverment.”
I have never disputed this Scott.
I belong to the group that will always reject Westminster rule and pursue independence and the number of seats does not reflect the size of the groups.
How does this group fit in to your vision of the future? Just ignore us until there is a majority vote for independance?
It was never annexed by Henry. The high kingship was abolished by the Pope as he had authority to do so. If you accept Laudabiliter it gave the Lordship of Ireland to Henry. But it did not give him the territory as of right. He held it under the Pope. This was the position until Henry claimed the Kingship uniting the crowns, not the territories, of the kingdoms of Ireland and England in a personal union. This caused consternation in Europe as it was not recognised and not getting into it too much it was in that limbo until Mary and Philip gained the throne and gained recognition. Since then, until the act of union 1801 the two crowns were in a personal union.
You should never ask questions to which you think you know the answer,scott
“Can someone explain to me why Northern Ireland isn’t a country? One of the four countries that make up the United Kingdom as far as I know. ”
At least you recognise there are individual countries within the UK and it is not simply one country like MT chooses to believe.
It is because our country is and always will be the island of Ireland.
At one time, unionists in Ireland were proud to be Irish, at the turn of the nineteenth century, the Irish Unionist party used the slogan ‘Erin go bragh’ in their election campaigns even though they wanted to maintain Ireland’s position as a part of the UK.
The Irish heritage does not belong to Catholics or nationalists and it was never denied to protestants except by their own.
It also does not make you less British than anyone is wales speaking welsh.
Even Ian Paisley who was anti catholic and anti republican but was never anti Irish, in fact he often said you could not be an Ulsterman without being an Irishman first.
Do you consider yourself Irish Scott?
Jessica
I would consider myself British and Irish. I don’t see these having to be one or the other. I was born in the UK So I’m happily a British citizen. I was also born on the island of Ireland so I have no problems being called Irish because there is definately an Irishness to me culturally, although I do not have any wish to be a citizen of the Republic. But I suppose what I feel my identity is deep down in my bones is a Ulsterman. I don’t think it’s silly to consider myself all three British, Irish and Ulsterman. I sometimes use the comparison as someone from Leeds can be British, English and a proud Yorkshireman.
William Crawley done a brilliant documentary a while back called Imagining Ulster. I’d highly recommend it. He talks about how before the troubles large portion of Protestants referred to themselves as Irish and how people’s view were polarised by the conflict
“William Crawley done a brilliant documentary a while back called Imagining Ulster. I’d highly recommend it. He talks about how before the troubles large portion of Protestants referred to themselves as Irish and how people’s view were polarised by the conflict”
Not only the conflict and nothing is more divisive than conflict or harder to repair the damage it causes.
I completely respect your choice of all three identities. I am Irish first and Ulster second but not British at all. My relationship with Britain was defined through experiences with the British army, loyalist paramilitaries and decades of discrimination.
I am not sure if unionist lack of reciprocation towards reconciliation on this island is preventing me from letting go or if I truly am a lost cause but I am sure it isn’t helping.
I agree 100% Scott.
Wrt to the polarising of national affiliations I think it’s an aspect that doesn’t get highlighted enough. Dr Brian Walker of QUB showed an almost perfect correlation between the decline of ‘Irishness’ in Protestants and the accompanying political violence.
It is a supreme irony imo that the IRA campaign (provoked or not) was almost singularly responsible for the ‘appearance’ of hundreds of thousands of British people in NI by their rejection of their Irish identity.
I for one don’t support this idea and I share your view of a national trinity of sorts.
“It is a supreme irony imo that the IRA campaign (provoked or not) was almost singularly responsible for the ‘appearance’ of hundreds of thousands of British people in NI by their rejection of their Irish identity.”
AG, I accept the conflict polarised the people in the north as you would expect it to and why unionism wanted it in the first place, but do you seriously believe the conflict here was a one sided “IRA campaign”?
I often wonder AG that if there hadn’t been 30 years of conflict in Northern Ireland maybe when there’s a debate on Irish unity it would have been as cordial and level headed as the debate on Scottish independence was at their referendum.
“I often wonder AG that if there hadn’t been 30 years of conflict in Northern Ireland maybe when there’s a debate on Irish unity it would have been as cordial and level headed as the debate on Scottish independence was at their referendum.”
Why should a debate on Irish unity not been as cordial and level headed do you think?
I would be quite happy to be open minded about it.
To be a country you traditionally need to be recognised as such by another and the region hasn’t. Wales is a country. It signed a treaty with England. Scotland is a country. It signed treaties also. As did Ireland. Northern Ireland so called did not and never will as the UK represents it internationally. It never has represented itself on political terms internationally. Another form of international recognition that is gaining weight in international law is recognition as such by the UN. No country called northern ireland is recognised there. However there is a region called northern Ireland which is recognised as a province of the UK.
I think the people in the BBC are too ‘nice’ to more accurately describe Nolan as ‘the biggest mouth in the country’!
What about “Making Northern Ireland work” and PONI.Leave them to their flags and their motorbikes. There’ll be no Irish language act etc etc. These people are British and want nothing to do with us. How do I know? Because they tell me so. It’s time to throw in the towel. They do not want to be convinced of anything that is not as British as Finchley. Leave them alone with their Stormont and their tyrefests and their Union Jacks.
his cackles become crackles as one enters the pale
…lovely..pj….
Agreed whole heartedly, Harry. Another one that gets my goat, are the unionist businessmen types referring to Britain as GB. That way they don’t have to mention the word Britain, which would of course suggest that Britain is somewhere else. As if we don’t all know what GB stands for. And ( I’m on a roll) having the temerity to complain that Nationalist politicians will not refer to NI as NI and call it the North, when those same people refer to the 6 counties as ‘the province’.
Does Ulster rugby, for instance represent the good people of Cavan, for instance? If not, where do Cavan rugby fans ( thin on the ground admittedly) fit in the firmament of Irish rugby union? They’re definitely not in Leinster, Connacht or Munster. ( holds head in both hands and weeps).
Eh?
How’s GB not GB?
NI is not in GB. Nor is it in Brittany. But GB is still GB.
Harry
I think you will find there is a huge surge (a hugosurge) on the grid as thousands of talkback fans rush to avoid the first utterances of Hugo. I won’t! I won’t!I won’t!
Nolan is a terrible self publicist but he does often produce something worth listening to in amongst the nonsense.
As for his jingle I find it helps to employ a little spoonerism, which turns him into
‘the biggest c**t in the show tree’
Yep gio …I literally rush across the room to switch over or off….very quickly. I’m sure i’m not alone but there are surely many Hugo fans propping up that show, so I’m sure that I’m in a small minority in this as I am in many, many other things.
I thought it was only me Harry
His voice makes me cringe
My god Paddy, we have found something that we don’t agree on!
I’m a Hugo-ite, he even says ‘kyar’ instead of ‘car’, there are few things more pleasing to the ex-pat ear.
Aw..Am Ghob…that’s only nostalgia . You’re being suckered by that ould paddywhackery again…ye will…ye will….ye will!!!!
Tread carefully ,Harry!You’ll no doubt be aware that Jude is a fairly regular contributor to the Nolan show!
You should surely know I post all sorts of comments on this site – some on the money, some bewildered…
Do you think Mr Nolan reads any of this , Argenta?
I have no idea,Harry.Presumably he has a team of researchers behind the scenes to do his work for him.What I was really referring to was Jude’s frequent appearances on the Nolan radio show.
That would depend on what you term ‘frequent\, argie. Maybe it just seems frequent (and long)…
Nolan gets his little helper David Gordon to do his reading for him.
In the final analysis the most accurate unchallengeable term for this ‘region’ is the old ‘republican’ term which leaves Unionists apoplectic “THE SIX COUNTIES”. Now so un-PC.
The frustration I have with Nolan is that he’s a guy who without doubt knows his stuff on the subjects he’s interviewing people on, but he sometimes take a silly childish line of questioning which is just to get a reaction and not to add anything to the debate.
Shame since the guy is most definately intelligent and when he gets a subject that he doesn’t behave like the interviews a wrestling match, it always is very interesting.
Maith tu Harry, I’ve thought this often myself, once mailing the ‘corporation’ asking, as one of their licence payer’s, were they the ‘Belfast Broadcasting Corporation’ (albeit, the boul Hugo, being, like myself from west of the Bann, does appeal to a certain other licence fee payer).
The fact is, as you allude, Antrim, nor Armagh are countries, indeed, before them nice french folk came here in the thirteenth century with their pleasant approach to subjugating us natives, ‘counties’ did not exist and, the five Provinces and our Dioceses and Parishes were our sub divisions, along with local kingdom’s belonging to local King’s and Queens.
Perhaps, once, the son of the man from the black island ruled out near what is now peatland’s park but, the biggest radio show in the country is, without doubt, ‘Innue leis Sean O Rourke’.
Ha ha , Mark, sometimes McAvinchey is indeed translated as derived from MacDhuibhinse…or Son of the Black Island. An alternative , more colloquial nickname might apparently be “The Goat-Like One”…depending on who you’ll ask and what mood they might be in. There is indeed also some French bloodstock in my timeline , derived from my dad’s mother’s side. Granny was a Nugent (which is as French as French Toast) , apparent from French Hugenot Calvinist stock somewhere way back in the day… maybe coming in with the Normans after the Conquest of 1066…. early on or more probably fleeing persecution later , some time after the Edict of Nantes which had protestants fleeing from France and re-locating in Britain and Ireland.
Apparently granny and her sister ran from their strait-laced presbyterian daddy who worked as a distiller in Dublin and were eventually snapped up and married by two Northern Catholic lads …one of whom was one of my Grand-daddies….we’re a mixed bunch alright!
I haven’t reached the stage of wether Norn Iron is a country.I’m still struggling to understand how Radio Ulster opperates in only 6 of the known 9 counties of Ulster.
Applying reverse logic, surely the Republic isn’t therefore a country? And before you all start warbling “a nation once again”, the 26 counties have recognised NI as a separate state on four separate occasions: 1922, Anglo-Irish, Downing Street Declaration and the Good Friday Agreement. The latter by an over-whelming public vote in both (separate) jurisdictions. Perhaps it is time to realise that a) The 26 helped create NI; b) “The Cause” failed and was a bloodthirsty campaign by a criminal gang that was ultimately defeated; c) that the 26 DON’T CARE (I agree with you on this Jessica); and d) the GFA has finally recognised the principle of consent…..the majority of all people in NI and a substantial proportion of the nationalist community are happy with the status quo. While I have some sympathy with Jessica’s ideal of reclaiming the occupied 3 counties of Ulster to achieve the emancipation of Ulster as a whole (seriously Jess, I know a tattoo artist who can get you a great wee Red Haund scribbled on your bingo wings) it is probably time to realise that most people in our wee COUNTRY realise that NI is a lesser of two evils and are determined to try and make it work. Perhaps you can put your hatred aside and try and make our society work?
Well, Joe, at least the Republic has the trappings of a state with a working bicameral system of government, accredited ambassadors abroad, standing army, issues it’s own coinage and stamps, native language and customs, etc. The institutions of the southern jurisdiction are largely respected and supported by those who live within it’s boundaries. One can hardly say these things about the northern entity which has been an abysmal failure since it’s inception. Only now do we have people discussing forming an opposition some 20 years after the Good Friday Agreement and all government positions are doled out on the D’Hondt formula due to the divisions inherent in society At best the place could be called a colonial dependency which is on a British financial life support machine. You mention a “bloodthirsty campaign by a criminal gang” to change the status quo but you fail to mention the bloodthirsty loyalist terror campaign against innocent nationalists to keep the northern.”state” British. The upcoming Britexit vote could yet be a game-changer and as a consequence throw a political spanner into the constitutional works with a potential Scotexit scenario This will have profound implications for the two jurisdictions in Ireland and put a United Ireland back firmly into the reckoning.
“Applying reverse logic, surely the Republic isn’t therefore a country? ”
The Irish constitution recognises the whole island as the country, not 26 counties.
It also recognises 6 of these are under British jurisdiction and will remain so until such time as the people decide they want unification which it also declares is to be persuaded purely by peaceful means.
“b) “The Cause” failed and was a bloodthirsty campaign by a criminal gang that was ultimately defeated;”
The conflict was started by unionists and had many combatants and groups that participated including the British state forces, the perception that it was “a bloodthirsty campaign by a criminal gang that was ultimately defeated” is simply untrue.
The reason unionism refuses to acknowledge its role in starting the conflict and enflaming it and why Britain redact, destroy and prevent evidence being provided to the courts is to promote this perception as the truth.
This will not lead to reconciliation and eventually, unionism will have the same scrutiny applied that has been already applied to republicanism and Britain will have to come clean.
On a wider note, I also agree that conflict failed to unite our people and if anything, made the gulf wider.
Violence will not achieve anything, lets hope it is over for good and no matter what happens, we now have a peaceful means of achieving British withdrawal and so long as this is accepted by unionism and honoured by Britain, then lets hope peace is here to stay.
At the same time, we should not take that peace for granted. Unionism makes no effort and I fear that should a majority vote for unity come about, they will revert to kind and use threats of civil war once again.
“c) that the 26 DON’T CARE (I agree with you on this Jessica);”
Both London and Dublin have tried to ignore us as much as possible.
I understand London, but am upset that Dublin has done so little and disgusted in the southern parties and their media.
Whether it is true among the people and not just the state or not is irrelevant, but the perception with myself and most people I know is that the 26 don’t care about unity, so we are indeed in agreement on this Joe.
“d) the GFA has finally recognised the principle of consent. The majority of all people in NI and a substantial proportion of the nationalist community are happy with the status quo.”
I am not nor is the majority of people I know, but the only way to prove this or not, is to debate the options and let the people decide.
That will have to happed sooner or later, don’t you agree?
“NI is a lesser of two evils and are determined to try and make it work. Perhaps you can put your hatred aside and try and make our society work?”
I acknowledge that have a deep rooted hatred of British authority in Ireland, it is unlikely that will ever change, it is not something I instil into my children and I do my best to hide it in daily life but it will never leave me. There are many who feel the same way about Irish unity.
I employee people on both sides and show tolerance every day of my life, at least allow me to speak my mind with honesty on this blog without accusing me of preventing our society from working.
““d) the GFA has finally recognised the principle of consent. The majority of all people in NI and a substantial proportion of the nationalist community are happy with the status quo.””
I should also add to this, while most people I know are not happy with the situation, most have accepted it is out of our control and primarily over the lack of interest from Dublin, many are indeed just accepting things are the way they are and there is nothing we can do about it.
Ireland is a country traditionally as it was accepted as such by other countries. The Papal States, and England for example. The Republic of Ireland is also a country. It also has signed treaties and is recognised by the UN. However the wee six is not. It is claimed by the UK, which is recognised by the UN, as a constituent part. Hope that clariifies it for you.
Yes Joe …you’re on to something there too. The Republic Of Ireland is only part of a country ..Although we are also being quietly being brain-washed by some to believe that it is the complete meal, you can look at that map and see that the “republic part” does not encompass the whole island of Ireland. Daft …isn’t it? We could argue all day about the rest of it , of course …the rights and wrongs …the whys and the wherefores..
“And before you all start warbling “a nation once again”, ”
I wish more people would reintroduce themselves to those songs that did so much to keep our spirits up during the conflict.
The south has forgotten what it means to be Irish, the majority simply take it for granted in 2016.
It will always be known as THE ARTIFICIALLY CREATED SECTARIAN LITTLE STATELET to me.