I’ve just read Nigel Dodds’s reaction to the news that John Finucane will run for Sinn Féin in North Belfast, and I can’t help thinking of Billy Bunter. I didn’t eat the cake ‘cos I didn’t know it was hidden in the pantry and anyway I left half of it, even though I didn’t eat a bite and these cake crumbs on my mouth, they’re not really there, I say you chaps, let go of me, YAROOH!
Nigel, in so many words, has protested “ This isn’t John Finucane that’s running, it’s Gerry Adams. And you wouldn’t vote for Gerry Adams, would you? Besides, John Finucane is really Gerry Kelly, isn’t he? You wouldn’t vote for Gerry Kelly, would you? And Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly are not unionists, are they? And you want to preserve the Union, don’t you?”
Let’s now discreetly avert our gaze from the sputtering DUP man for a moment and consider five reasons why having John Finucane running in North Belfast makes a lot of sense.
- He’s John Finucane. That means he witnessed the cruel death of his father at the hands of a loyalist gang which was waist-deep in collusion. To have survived that killing at a family meal, not just physically but emotionally, means you’re a person of steely character.
- John Finucane, like his father Pat, is a solicitor. He’s young, he’s smart, he’s educated. In the south, Sinn Féin have added a considerable number of such people to their ranks. John Finucane is a sterling example of what is available in the north.
- This can enhance the Finucane campaign for a public enquiry. Yes, yes, they were promised that by the British at Weston Park in 2001, and yes, yes, that promise was then reneged on. No surprise there. But to have an elected MP whose father was brutally killed by collusion between loyalist paramilitaries and agents of the state: such a thing would be intolerable in England. If elected, John Finucane’s new stature could be the tipping point for the Finucane family’s long, heroic campaign to hear the full truth about their father’s death.
- John Finucane’s candidacy will make it very difficult for the SDLP to field a candidate in north Belfast. To their credit, the SDLP have always been supportive of the Finucane campaign. If they now run Nicola Mallon or some other candidate against John Finucane, it’ll expose their concern for the family as a sham: party interest trumps human compassion. If they don’t run a candidate, they’ll have made the possibility of a Sinn Féin MP in North Belfast a distinct possibility. The SDLP have always congratulated themselves on doing the right thing, even when it has negative effects for their party. They now have a chance to do the right thing.
- By its unexpectedness, John Finucane’s candidacy has sent a jolt of expectation through the ranks of republicans and yes, nationalists. Republicans who have felt that Gerry Kelly as candidate would have resulted in the usual near-but-no-cigar result will see that John Finucane brings youth and widespread public respect to the Sinn Féin campaign. Having spent much of previous campaigns referring to victims of the IRA, Nigel Dodds is now confronted with an opponent who is a victim of loyalist and British state forces. By fielding Finucane, Sinn Féin have effectively sawn off an important plank in the DUP platform. Claims that John Finucane is really Gerry Adams or Gerry Kelly? Sorry Nigel, you’re beginning to sound a bit like the Fat Owl of the Remove.
But of course, only the people of North Belfast can elect John Finucane. Over to you, guys.
People of North Belfast please do the right thing. Get registered mobilise and elect John.
why.whats the point.
“ This isn’t John Finucane that’s running, it’s Gerry Adams. And you wouldn’t vote for Gerry Adams, would you? Besides, John Finucane is really Gerry Kelly, isn’t he? You wouldn’t vote for Gerry Kelly, would you? And Gerry Adams and Gerry Kelly are not unionists, are they? And you want to preserve the Union, don’t you?”
Did Nigel Dodds really say this?
TheHist
He must have. Jude would never stoop to paraphrasing someone for effect.
Here is what Dodds actually said.
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/general-election-2017/sinn-fein-line-up-pat-finucanes-son-to-battle-dodds-for-north-belfast-35675631.html
Try not to be so childish in your comments, gio. This is a grown-ups site…
Jude
You were paraphrasing weren’t you? For effect?
As for a grown-up site, I suppose stuff like ‘Snarlene’ ‘old trout’ ‘old tart’ ‘arsehole’ ‘amoeba’ or comparing an elected representative to a fat boy in a comic will all have to be removed eh?
Perhaps not.
You really try my patience sometimes, gio. Yes, I was paraphrasing – that’s why I said ‘In so many words’. That’s what paraphrasing means. And one who writes, writes for effect of some kind. As for your remarks about Snarlene etc – i have never used any such expressions nor encouraged others. As you well know. My Bunter-Dodds comparison was with the ridiculous diversionary tactics/claims of both when confronted with something uncomfortable. Now, would you straighten your tie and go off and stop being silly/mislieading/ and what’s that other word…
Jude
Come off it.
You exaggerated what he said in order to make your point.
Fair enough, you have an agenda to push.
But you can’t expect that no-one is going to point it out.
If you really wanted to elicit discussion of what Dodds said you would have quoted him accurately or provided a link
Regarding the ongoing personal stuff here,I am pretty sure if I called Michelle O’Neill a tart you would not tolerate it yet you ignored it when aimed at Ruth Dudley Edwards even though I drew your attention to it.
Some consistency would be nice.
I think if the SDLP choose not to stand in North Belfast, Sinn Fein have to reciprocate by not standing in South Belfast. Colum Eastwood needs to wake up and realise that nationalist co-operation in certain constituencies is paramount.
It would be something if a Sinn Fein candidate was to win a seat in North Belfast. The seat, since 1885 has exclusively been held by Conservatives / Unionists (Stratton Mills of Alliance held it briefly in 1973-74). Could Nigel be joining his old associate Nelson on his retirement days trips to Portrush?
Well good luck to him,he will need it. I would be happy to see the back of Nigel Dodds..
The ditching of Gerry Kelly after his sectarian leaflet fiasco is a welcome move and one more small step away from the violent past
I don’t think the numbers are there though, to get him elected and definitely not if the SDLP run.
This is a poor attempt by Jude to suggest they should step aside on account of Finucane’s campaign.
That is not how politics works and no party including SF would do that.
Is he a single issue candidate running solely on the issue of his father’s killing, or is he representing Sinn Fein and their policies?
It is amusing to see the appeal to the SDLP to ‘do the right thing’ when they have been routinely mocked and vilified on these pages.
Finally I fully support the Finucane family’s quest for the truth but I recall no such support for the truth regarding those killed in Derry during Martin McGuinness’s time in charge there.
All I heard was ‘bad things happen in war ‘ time to move on’
Funny that.
If you feel so strongly about ‘things’ that happened in Derry, why don’t you start a campaign? You seem to have the facts at your fingertips. I would be interested in events in Béal Feirste at the setting up of this statelet. Could you do a wee piece on this too. The world is your oyster and your whataboutery is to be commended.
fiosrach
Your lack of concern for the truth is disappointing.
If you are interested in events at the setting up of this ‘statelet’ why don’t you do a piece yourself instead of telling me what to do!.
You’re the one who whinges every time Martin McGuinness is mentioned. Every time a ‘rotten apple’ is exposed in the British forces in Ireland it doesn’t necessitate your Pavlovian ‘ah but what about …..’ Next thing you will be enquiring about Harry’s bees and why does he not mention that they have stung people in the past. Do you have an app that sees an opening for whataboutery?
fiosrach
The vast majority of my ‘whinging’ comments about Martin McGuinness were in respnse to pieces by Jude or Joe or Donal on the subject of guess what…,Martin McGuinness.
I agree that whataboutery is a killer in any debate, but I would say there are many worse offenders here than me.
Seriously, why do you fear the Truth about St. Martin of the Bogside?
Surely, he was just a “freedom-fighter” who stayed his enemies with kindness and a boyish smile.
Any honest enquiry could only enhance his canonisation, no?
Lets not forget of course,another reason…….dignity……..the Finucane family has shown time and time again the real meaning of the word.
A brilliant candidate , from a respected family who will if elected will be a constant reminder to the British and their dirty war against nationalist / Catholics / republicans within the legal profession which led to the murder of his father , great choice and if elected will i have no doubt will be a voice for all victims
well done sinn fein well done John
Philip
“And a constant reminder to the British and their dirty war against nationalists/Catholics/republicans within the legal profession”
If memory serves me right,the I R A were no slouches either in killing members of the legal profession .Do the names Travers/Conaghan/O ‘Kelly /Doyle mean anything to you?Of course they also murdered judges from the other side of the community such as Mc Burney and Gibson.
The British state and their running dogs are the aggressors in Ireland. They only play this ‘civilised society’, ‘right minded people’ and ‘democracy’ card when it suits them.
….as do their adversaries.
It wasn’t just the British Army that were dragging wee boys up alleyways to smash their legs into social compliance.
Kevin is trying to get the ‘hood’ vote now lol.
I would commend the entire Finucane clan for their perserverence and dignity throughout their ongoing trials and traumas.
But Judes point that the English Tories would give anything more than a passing chuckle at the horror the British state had inflicted on the family of an elected MP, is entirely self-delusional.
These same Tories actively bayed and cheered when Bobby Sands was laying down his life for Justice.
And besides, John Finucane wouldn’t even take his seat in Westminster so, honestly, what’s the point.
“And besides, John Finucane wouldn’t even take his seat in Westminster so, honestly, what’s the point.”
In all honesty would it matter if he took his seat? You know, like, what’s the point?
Them pesky shinners have pulled a master stroke getting this fella stand, so credit where credit is due…….the buggers!
He in undoubtedly an outstanding candidate, but this is liking signing Lionel Messi and then putting him on the bench for a netball team.
If he can’t play in the big games in the big stadia, then there is no point.
There’s no point in playing in the big games and big stadia if the games are meaningless where any goals you score will be ignored and count for nothing…..best save yourself for the home games.
@ Wolfe.
It seems that we are in agreement.
I suggest you rid yourself of the delusion, Kevin, that anyone who doesn’t agree with you is delusional. They might even be right.My contention – well, actually, passing implication – was that the British public would now be faced with an MP whose father was shot in front of his family and has been blocked from the truth, as distinct from a solicitor paddy somewhere in Ireland who’d had the same experience. That’s not a delusion. At least as I understand Englsh
@ Jude.
My point was a simple one,
English Tory MPs couldn’t give a damn for the damage they’ve caused in Ireland.
In fact, it would give some of the more emotionally damaged ones a perverse glee to look the victims of their horrors, and their families, directly in the eyes, and simply sneer.
I mentioned the fact that they are the same Tories that cheered Thatcher all the way through the 1981 Hunger Strike, and moreso when Bobby Sands MP finally died.
You may also have forgotten that it was a Tory using Parliamentary privilege that triggered the unleashing of the rage of the State against Pat Finucane.
It was British Tories that shamelessly unleashed the dogs of War. To expect any form of contrition or discomfort now is, in my opinion, delusional.
And to make your point particularly moot, John Finucane will presumably be Abstentionist, so there won’t be any Parliamentary advantage in putting an X beside his name.
It will.just be yet more gesture politics.
He is a wonderful candidate, wasted.
“You may also have forgotten that it was a Tory using Parliamentary privilege that triggered the unleashing of the rage of the State against Pat Finucane.”. Eh – no, Kevin.I wish I had time to dilute your delusions but alas…
@ Jude.
I’m referring to Douglas Hogg, a Tory Home Office minister, who claimed in Westminster that some solicitors in the North were “unduly sympathetic” to the IRA.
A few weeks later Pat Finucane was shot dead.
Those are the Tories that you want us to believe will be all shook up by John Finucanes election on an abstentionist ticket
I’m afraid the “delusion” is entirely your own.
Looking beyond the 8th June, I think John Finucane will be a very valuable addition to SF north. More like him needed.
paddy power fancies nigel 1/3 on.
Even Diana doesn’t fancy Nigel!
Maybe you can enlighten us as to whether he fancies her – or does it matter one whit?
To help those whose imaginations are mired in the literal, here are the LITERAL words of N Dodds in response to the news of John Finucane.
“”In keeping with Sinn Fein ideology John Finucane will seek to forward Gerry Adams’ plan to destroy the Union and advance an extreme republican agenda,” he said.
“The clear choice in North Belfast is between a pro-Union candidate who will take his seat and stand up for North Belfast, and the Gerry Kelly-sponsored republican candidate who will boycott Parliament and leave the people voiceless in Westminster.”
Inside a two-sentence comment, Nigel protests (too much?) that JF will act on GA’s plan, and that Gerry Kelly is his sponsor. This clearly is becoming a DUP strategy: you’ve not been involved as a combatant in the Troubles, but your strings are being pulled by combatants. And to think we were once told that if republicans forsook violence and entered politics, things would be transformed.
It would seem that Gerrys agenda has been upgraded from “radical” to “extreme”.
I’m going to deduct one point from Nigel for going off-script from DUP HQ.
So as not to give any ammunition to the partisan and binkered contributor to this blog , who apparently only sees violence emanating from republicans ..sorry who only mentions violence emanating from republicans….let me say there are more that enough republicans/nationalists in Belfast North to unseat ( hopefully permanently ) the melancholic and doleful Mr Dodds
The 2015 General Election results* suggest otherwise. SF got 13,770, SDLP got 3,328.
Deputy Dodds was way ahead on 19k.
*SF struggle to get their vote out for Westminster elections. Do not presume to scale up from the recent Assembly elections or you will end up embarrassed.
Hi Kevin,
While it will be difficult, it does seem possible that there could be a nationalist MP for the first time, according to my numbers.
David McCann writing over on Slugger also seems to agree that the numbers are there, he writes:
“In March’s election, the combined SF/SDLP vote represented some 42.5% as compared to 42.8% for the combined votes of the DUP/UUP/PUP.
However, Sinn Fein would be confident that the vast majority of votes for the People Before Profit candidate, representing some 3.8%, would likely favour Finucane over Dodds, leaving the Sinn Fein candidate well placed to challenge Dodds for the seat.
For the first time ever, there is a prospect of a nationalist MP being returned for North Belfast.”
Vote turn out in the 2015 GE was 40.5K vrs 42.1K in this years Assembly election.
The combined vote of the SF, SDLP & PBP in this years election was 19,194 votes; that is up 2K from the combined SF&SDLP figures from 2015. So it would appear that the numbers are there to oust Dodds, if the three parties mentioned could agree on a unity candidate.
Hiya Kieran.
As mentioned before, SF struggle to get their vote out for Westminster elections.
David is making a series of miscalculations to arrive at a Finucane victory.
Firstly, the March elections were a perfect storm for Unionism, mostly self-inflicted, and coinciding with McGuinness’ illness. Sinn Fein were the beneficiaries of that perfect storm.
Secondly, the SDLP have made it clear they will not be tarnished by Sinn Feins toxic brand.
Lastly, i really can’t understand why people cannot absorb that PBP are not, and never have been “nationalist”. They are very proud Socialists, and they will stand again, and consolidate again, their vote in North Belfast.
The sectarian.parties can do what they like.
Up The Reds!
Kevin,
PBP may not count themselves Nationalists, but the vast majority of their recent voters do and they will switch to John in droves. Sympathy for Martin’s illness last time out, will hardly be lessened by his much lamented death.
No doubt the hard core Lefty, Brexiteers of PBP will stand, just as the British puppets in the Workers Party have, but the only majority of votes they are likely to get, is of their canvassers.., maybe.
I’ll cheer on the reds when they’re not doing the Crowns bidding.
Kevin learn from your Hero, Connolly tried to organise the Loyalists/Protestants who simply turned on him.
Everyone knows, despite the pandering PBP will never get unionist or even very many Protestants to vote for it. McCann has been trying for decades in Derry. Even with the relatively low levels of sectarianism in Derry the Unionist/Protestants wouldn’t go near anything like the SWP/PBP.
Don’t believe that the sdlp should run in n Belfast but that is a mental reason.
Running for election is not opposing the finucane campaign.
Iam usually the first to support full on mental Irish behaviour but that is going to far.
John finucane is a member of the shinners now he is putting his name forward for election. People are allowed take opposing views with out mental inferences being drawn.
I didn’t say it was going to be easy….Dodds got a clear run in 2015 !…..Unionism was riding high , they had a big turnout
I am delighted to see John Finucane step forward as Sinn Fein’s candidate in North Belfast. To my mind he further symbolizes the emergence of a new generation of party representatives, testifying to the sustained appeal of Sinn Fein. Plus North Belfast is a constituency where the political demographics are gradually changing in favour of Nationalist and Republicans. But surely Brexit will feature as the main issue at this time. It is supported by Dodds and the DUP, but opposed by SF and the majority of people in the North. It has huge implications for the whole of Ireland and has singlehandedly advanced the debate on reunification by many years. This election is an opportunity to build on that.
So a Brexit vote was hugely destabilising for the 6 Counties, and the subject of Irish Unity has never been discussed so openly and positively?
Yet Sinn Fein opposed it.
Can you explain that?
its a british election.nothing to do with brexit.
like all british elections.not worth worrying about.
John Finucane is a great choice. I have every confidence he will win. The republican project was never better positioned, despite the naysaying of those within the nationalist community who, for selfish political reasons, would rather that unionists instead of Sinn Fein won. How they can justify that stance I do not know, unless they are being sponsored by right wing Tories both here and in England. Stranger things have happened.
@ Patrick.
So anyone who is against a sectarian election pact is potentially sponsored by “right-wing Tories”?
Any evidence, anecdotal or otherwise, to support that conclusion?
@ PaulG
Do you speak.for or to “the vast majority of PBP voters”? You seem remarkably attuned.to their political aspirations.
Ps. You’ve managed to insult Brexiteers, the Workers Party, and PBP all in one sentence – quite the achievement.
Are you old enough to remember when.Sinn Fein were against the EU? Mind you, that was ages ago, maybe 4 years ago.
Pps. I’ll take no lectures from you about doing the “Crowns bidding” – we wouldn’t curtsey to the Queen or the Colonel-in-Chief.
Well in fairness transfer voting stats are there for all to see so YES the vast majority of PBP voters are nationalist. If you cant even admit that then you have a problem. If PBP continue with this other designation then it may come back to bite them their own candidates and supporters seem to be in disagreement on their pro unity stance and instead try and fudge the question. They could always start a sharp u-turn a bit like their brexit stance. The chance was there for a left wing republican alternative to hurt SF and PBP have blown it
Sorry to disappoint, Boondock, but People Before Profit won’t be dragged into your sectarian tribalism.
I’ll colour-code it for you to make it simpler for you.
You are Green.
Themuns are Orange.
We are Red.
If that costs us electorally because Sinn Fein continue to smear as Sticks/Hoods/Unionist/Tory/MI5/Lunatics/Dissidents*, then so be it.
Wouldn’t you be better advised to simply ignore us or defeat our ideas?
Why do we fil you with such rage and fear.
Where is the Respect, Integrity, and Equality in any of that?
If you want your united Ireland to have been won by smears, and distortions and lies, then you’re condemning it to failure straight away.
*Delete as appropriate.
All of these insults have been flung on this page in recent days.
Kevin, who called you a hood? Love to see evidence of that.
@ Emmet.
I think it was you that claimed that PBP were looking for the Hood vote because i criticised punishment beatings.
Ps. You should check out Capt.Jack White, founder member of the ICA.
Connolly sold his anti-sectarian message to.all.
My sectarian tribalism?? I am a nationalist yes is that sectarian.l? I was just trying to inform you of your own voters transfers something which I would advice the party to do. If they want though they can continue on the other designation and brexit route and see how well that does at the polls, good luck.
@ Boondock.
Is that why Sinn Fein changed their stance on the EU – popularity?
Countering a Sectarian pact should be classed as being an anti-sectarian pact.
Particularly, as those who formed the Unionist pact to manipulate the election, do so for the sectarian and racist reasons of protecting the stolen privileges of their religious and ethnic group, while a Nationalist counter pact would be to restore electoral equality and help in the reversal of the inflicted evils of discrimination, imperialism and plantationism.
@ PaulG
When was the last time you were discriminated against, in anything other than your social class?
If you live west of the Bann you are discriminated against.
@ Emmet.
Is that discrimination religious or geographical?
@kevin
The current socio-economic state of most nationalists is a direct consequence of the discrimination of recent decades and centuries before that.
Only recently have significant numbers been able to escape it.
@ Paul.
I said.”other than social class”, where is all this discrimination?
And I said “to reverse the evils of discrimination, imperialism and plantationism.”
That means I don’t just want see a halt to them but to reverse their effects. That would include the transfer of wealth from the benficiaries of the great theft and subsequent discriminatory state advantage, to the dispossesed and institutionally hamstrung.
Shouldn’t that be the focus too of your irish socialist colleagues?